Stating the Obvious

Because it would give the lie to the rest of the whole "neo-Confederacy ain't racist" crap.

I think George Allen is the same person as GG Allin.

Ned, have you seen him flinging macaca at the audience at any of his rallies?

"why not 'fess up, apologize, and say he's changed."

Because a big part of his campaign is to appeal to his racist base, who aren't necessarily sophistticated enough to see through an apology, and might accidently believe it.

Your equating of southern heritage with racism does a great disservice to southerners like Leroy Collins and Ralph McGill. But as long as you think racism is something that happens only in the south, you don't have to admit that it's a national problem not restricted to one region and should be rejected wherever you find it. I heard the N-word more in Milwaukee than I have in the south, and I live now in an area where people put rouge on their necks and buff it every morning. A mixed marriage is one in which the husband likes Dale Earnhart, Jr and the wife is a Jimmie Johnson fan. I'm unfamiliar with the term neo-Confederacy, but it's interesting to see it used by someone named Jeff Davis.

I second Lionel.

I grew up in Nashville. I'm not sentimental about the Confederacy myself, but I've known good people who are. Equating that with racism is itself ignorant, narrow-minded bigotry.

I'm not sentimental about the Confederacy myself, but I've known good people who are. Equating that with racism is itself ignorant, narrow-minded bigotry.

Spare us. People use Confederate pride as part of a rough heuristic to make educated guesses about others' tolerance for minorities. And, hey--lookit Allen-- it seems to work. Who knew?

Lionel and David, Sen. Allen grew up in Southern California and his mother is some combination of French and Jewish. He doesn't have "heritage" on his side. Outside of the South, racism and fascination with the Conferacy are highly correlated.

> why not fess up...

There are some things you are expected to lie about. One is whether you inhaled. Another is whether you ever used the N word. I'm sure there are more, but the point is, no one wants to hear a confession, they want and expect to a low-key denial.

I'll third Lionel. And also speaking as a Nashvillian, I know plenty of liberal Southerners who are in some sense proud of their family's sacrifices while in no way condoning slavery or racism. My great great grandfather wrote a diary during the siege of Vicksburg, and it's a cherished family treasure of a truly horrible event. Another ancestor lost his leg at Gettysburg. You can't just call them traitors to the U.S. and leave it at that, naturally. However, when a Californian goes in for "Southern Heritage" in a big way, that's clearly pretty suspect. And a noose can only be a sign that this guy took a very, very wrong turn, morally speaking. The deer's head incident I really don't want to believe happened. That's just sickening.

Why lie? Because... lying is Allen's instinctive, automatic response to any problem. He's a weasel.

What exactly is there to be sentimental about vis a vis the Confederacy but racism and killing? The whole economy and society was built on slavery and the planter class. The Confederacy only lasted four years, and during that time was willing to throw away essentially all the freedoms (for white people) that they claimed to be fighting to retain.

The Confederacy itself is an extrememly brief historical period that brought calamity, ruin, and death to the southern United States. I think people who claim to be sentimental about the Confederacy should either fess up that they are nostalgic for antibellum society, or explain why mass killing makes them sentimental.

Spare us.

No. I will tell the truth as I see it. If you don't like it, feel free to ignore me.

Sen. Allen grew up in Southern California . . .

I'm not concerned about Allen. His stupidity is sufficient disqualification from responsible office.

Outside of the South, racism and fascination with the Conferacy are highly correlated.

Perhaps so, but correlation is not identity.

Okay, so now I think I understand the neo-Confederacy thing. (My apologies to Jeffrey.) Like neo-Nazism, it's apparently a refuge for people who think the only thing they have going for them is that they were born to white parents.

So the guy used the n-word thirty years ago? So what? And that makes him a hard-core racist? Give me a break! You people are so childish, not to mention mean-spirited, in trying to take a good man down over something he said decades ago IN PRIVATE. Where is YOUR compassion? Where is YOUR sense of fair-play? This is just dirty, gutter politics. Shame on you all.

Jose, the guy is a bigot. No compassion.

Jose's version of Logic: (a) If a man used the word "nigger," he can't be elected President, (b) George Allen wants to be President, therefore (c) it is impolite to point out that George Allen used the word "nigger."

Why not fess up? Because Allen is probably the last person yet to realize that he no longer has a shot at being President.

This happened when? Thirty years ago? Is there no statute of limitations, for saying bad words in private?

And what of Mr. Sabato's role? Did he record what Mr. Allen said in his diary? Did he report what Mr. Allen said to the proper authorities? Did he call the campus newspaper? And, more importantly, did he confront Mr. Allen at the time and really get up into Mr. Allen's face? Or did Mr. Sabato morally wimp out and in retrospect give Mr. Allen his tacit approval? Why did it take 30 years for Mr. Sabato to come forward to report such venality?

Jose, he translated it into French and said it in public last month.

Chris Conway,

One would have to be pretty naive to think we've never had a president who used language like this in private. Harry Truman used "kike" constantly.

And we are not talking about Mr. Allen being president--or at least I'm not. But to disqualify him from being re-elected to the US Senate over this low-life smear campaign of the New York Times, because the New York Times doesn't want Mr. Allen to be re-elected? That is pretty low, if you ask me. But, hey, it's politics, right? And in politics we do what we to destroy one another, wouldn't you say?

Revised version of Jose's logic: (a) If a man used the n-word, he can't be elected Senator, (b) George Allen wants to be reelected Senator, therefore (c) it is impolite to point out that George Allen used the n-word.

I see. The macaca incident wasn't enough to tilt the election. They needed more, and so, when these low-lifes from 20 and 30 years ago began crawling out of the woodwork, it was like manna from heaven for the New York Times. Ugly.

Impolite?

Five weeks out from the election? Attempting to destroy a man's reputation in such a weasely way, in the pages of the most powerful newspaper in America? This is ugly, dirty politics.

Impolite? I can see the smirk on your face. So be it.

Jose, you are studiously ignoring the fact that Allen took it upon himself to deny his use of the word. Should anyone who ever used a vile racial epithet anytime in th past 30 years be barred from public office? No. Allen's problem isn't his probable use of the word, it's his non-credible denial that he ever used it.

Yes, I see, Jose. The anti-black bigot who uses the n-word isn't a lowlife. It's the people who try to hold him to account who are the lowlifes. Shows where you're coming from.

Attempting to destroy a man's reputation in such a weasely way, in the pages of the most powerful newspaper in America? This is ugly, dirty politics.

Yes, how dare you try to destroy the man's reputation by telling the truth about him? How ugly! The only right thing to do is to conceal the truth so he can continue to enjoy his undeserved reputation as a decent man (or whatever there is that's left of it at least).

Look. Someone up stream noted that my name is "Jeff Davis". Whoa, Nellie.

I'm Southern. My family has been in this state since the late 18th century.

Southern > Neo-Confederacy.

Allen isn't Southern. He's put on that crap flag consciously. Note: he isn't being scorned for using "nigger" 30 years ago. He's being scorned because his racial chickens are coming home to roost, and he's being feathered with 'em. So to speak. The "macaca" incident. Posing with the Council of Conservative Citizens. The Confederate flag in the office. The off-the-cuff remark that being asked about being Jewish was an insult. And most of all, the ever shifting explanations. None of which have been believable. The man's one kind of load. Neo-Confederacy crap's another. There are plenty of decent Southerners, but the people who try to revel in the glory days of the Confederacy aren't some of them.

Well, color me unsentimental (which is, after all, the truth), but I'm also in Nashville, having been raised in Mississippi, and am still pretty icked out by all things Stars & Bars. I understand the 'pride' thing and even commented elsewhere recently that it's usually a tool of defiance, an anchor of sorts, for those who don't enjoy the advantages of a dominant cultural group. But still, the only real reason for this particular expression of southern pride is the fact that the Confederacy should have been defeated much more quickly, and only gumption and amazing generals allowed it to last four full years. Other than that, it was-- and to a certain extent still is-- a highly stratified, insular, & rather violent culture that never has been particularly representative of broader American ideals, which isn't something I'd be proud of myself. And now it's the politically dominant culture, too, and we all see what's happening to our better principles.

Like I said, I'm not sentimental.

Who remembers what they said 30 years ago? Give me a break! This is a witch-hunt and it is beneath you guys. What does it have to do with being a senator? This is rotten. It stinks to high heaven. You are really the party of ideas--not; so out of touch, not only with America, but with reality. Meet me at Barney's Beanery and I'll explain the facts of life to you.

And one more thing, JP.

Don't tell me this is about THE TRUTH. Get off your high horse. This is about hurting him politically, because he's a Republican.

Really, apologizing would be the smart play. Most white Southerners, especially those who grew up in the 1960's or 1970's, have used the word at least once in the life. You get your prejudices (and your slurs) from the people you grow up with. Martin King and his crew were careful not back white Southerners into a corner. Their message wasn't you whites are horrible people but rather, you're better than this.

The civil rights movement from the start has taken the high road of accepting apologies from white Southern politicians who have tried to make amends. How many hard core racists (starting with George Wallace) have apologized for opposing segregation and then went on to garner black support?

The problem for Allen is that he doesn't think there's anything he's said or done to make amends for. He won't apologize because he's the same slug he was 30 years ago. His n-word problem is that he hasn't matured any since 1972, otherwise he wouldn't slurred a brown-skinned fellow Virginian on camera.

Democratic Senate challenger Jim Webb declined to say definitively Tuesday whether he had ever used a common derogatory term to describe blacks, stepping carefully after watching his campaign rival confront charges of racism.

"I don't think that there's anyone who grew up around the South that hasn't had the word pass through their lips at one time or another in their life," Webb told reporters.

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