A Question of Motives

I guess this is just one of the crazy things I keep saying, because no one ever picks up on it, but Soros is a tremendously impressive guy -- self-made man, helped bring down the USSR, etc., etc. (Especially compared to the psycho/felon Republican millionaires Scaife, Murdoch, and Moon).

But the Republicans and the media think Democrats should be ashamed of Soros, and the Democrats seem to believe it too.

There's a very easy explanation: Soros is a big fat Jewy Jew with a thick accent, and a secular Jewy Jew at that. He's in international finance like the Rothshilds, and for all I know he's a diamond merchant too.

But if Democrats said that, the Republicans would play the victim card. Because you know, the only anti-Semites any more are Democrats and self-hating Jews.

So the Democrats lose twice: because they're anti-Semites, and because they're controlled by the International Jewish Conspiracy (secular division.)

Well, that's about the response you'd expect from a semi-demi-anti-semite. (Or was it "demi semi," Emerson?)

Soros is a Holocaust survivor, too, so one might think we could lay the Auschwitz card aside

Wasn't it Tony Blankley who hinted darkly that his survival had to do with Soros being, well, sneaky?

I thought it was Hastert's press secretary.

...it's a wonder we've managed to survive for thousands of years.

It's no wonder. You Jews have to hang around to fulfill your part in the end times. It's all part of God's wondrous plan. Thanks, Jews! Sorry you're going to hell.

Victims of the Nazis turned out to be tormentors of the Arabs.

It would seem to be factually indisputable that some victims of the Nazis have also been tormentors of the Arabs.

"...Michael Moore (who, not to get too anti-semitic about it, obviously deals with a lot of Jews working in the movie business) as anti-semites"

While I agree with most of what Matt says, this part about Michael Moore needs work...unless you also want to argue that Mel Gibson isn't anti-semitic since he also "obviously deals with a lot of Jews working in the movie business".

Moses led you guys out of a sweet, guaranteed lifetime employment gig, through precariously-parted seas and into a desert. He was the original anti-Semite, if you ask me....

LW: a claim about a sinister causality, about the power of a small group to control the destiny of a large group

The claim that small groups dominate large groups is the basic insight of modern political science.

"Wasn't it Tony Blankley who hinted darkly that his survival had to do with Soros being, well, sneaky?"

Oh he sure did.

From Hannity and Colmes 6/3/04:

[Blankley]: He [Soros] said that he has no moral responsibility for the consequences of his financial actions. He is a self-admitted atheist. He was a Jew who figured out a way to survive the holocaust.

The insinuation is that Soros collaborated in order to save his own skin. Tony Blankley, class-act.

Wow, a "self-admitted" atheist. He's not even too ashamed to admit it. He must be evil.

Unreal. The guy sees anti-Semites under his bed and in his closet. Before long he'll be calling Menachim Begin and Ariel Sharon anti-Semites. In fact, considering Sharon's withdrawal from Gaza, I'm surprised he hasn't slapped that label on him already.

I'm curious, Matt, if your philosophy study ever brought you across any of what Maurice Blanchot wrote in The Infinite Conversation about anti-Semitism ("nihilism's most vulgar substitute") and the ontological nature of the Jew ("at the same time vagabond and established"). His exploration of the connection between the roots of anti-Semitism in paganism and being tied to the land and the roots of Judaism in simultaneously being "in exile and in the Kingdom" is pretty fascinating.

I bring it up only to say that it's profoundly affected the way I think about the concept, to the point that I'm not sure I can ever address anti-Semitism in a straight-forward way. I mean, I totally abhor it, but it also seems like an almost necessary facet of existence for the Jewish people, philosophically speaking.

Is it just me, or does it seem to others that Wieseltier and Peretz and other notable anti-semitism hunters are undergoing some sort of implosion? It's as though they don't even expect to be take seriously any more, and are just playing out some pre-assigned roles in a farce.

Maybe I'm a masochist, but I scrolled down to read some of his earlier posts. Of course, they were filled with the casual, glib accusations of anti-semitism and rabid Arab-hating that betray the bigot that he is, but then I got down to one of his posts, about Depaul University, and I was informed then of one of his new targets: Catholicism. Because Depaul behaved in a manner he did not approve of, and because it employs Norman Finklestein, Peretz concludes, in the first paragraph, that "the Catholic college and university is not one of the faith's big achievements in America." Words fail. Seriously.

I haven't looked at a blog for a while now and that Tony Blankley quote (let's for a moment imagine him addressing a convention of holocaust survivors) points to the reason why I did not: I can't take all this nonsense! US public discourse cannot be taken seriously anymore, it's in a deep crisis, it has become some sort of verbal schoolyard bullying. Even the most thoughtful refutations (e.g. MY's efforts) of this bullshit are, sadly, ultimately futile, a waste of time. Unless there's a major sea change in this regard, I will keep ignoring it.

It's reached the point where, aside from the Mell Gibson incident, I feel like the last 50 people I've seen be accused of anti-semitism were not anti-semetic. The word is officially lost.

Marty Peretz is a disaster waiting to blow up real big at NRP. Has anyone else noticed that the NRP blog (the Plank) has improved considerably lately? Are they just sucking up to the changing climate?

"Anti-semite" is the new "Nazi" or "fascist."

I guess that should be TNR, not NRP. My bad.

So if criticizing individual Jews and particular Jewish institutions, as Moore, Soros, et al, in fact do, makes one an anti-Semite, doesn't that make Peretz and his ilk anti-Semitic for criticizing Soros, Jewish peace initiatives, etc? After all, what's sauce for the goose ...

I find it odd how often these right-wing Jews (even if, like Peretz, they've convinced themselves their quasi-liberal) complain about anti-Semitism and accuse other Jews of self-hatred and then cozy up to real anti-Semites (and I would class someone who supports Israel hoping it'll start WWIII in which all Jews kill or convert as an anti-Semite as their goal is the same as Hitler's ... pardon the Godwin's law violation) and push their agenda as being "pro-Israeli" -- do they project much?

As far as Moore being an anti-Semite: he said that we Jews shoulda gotten a homeland in Bavaria. Call me insufficiently attached to the Holy Land, but I'd rather make Aliyah by moving to Bavaria than to a frickin' desert surrounded by hostile nations. Heck ... being Ashkanezic, my ancestry is probably more "vaguely Germanic" than "vaguely Middle-Eastern": I certainly have many relatives (even if I'm an average height red-head) who are more tall, blond-haired and blue-eyed Aryan than any Nazi who's ever lived -- but are hardly Middle-Eastern looking (those pictures of Jesus that make him look Nordic are Middle-Eastern looking by comparison).

I vote that from now on Martin Peretz will be referred to as "Uncle Leo".

Why is this hard to understand? If you oppose the war in Iraq, you're anti-American. If you oppose the occupation in Palestine, you're anti-semitic. And you love terrorists.

What kind of asshole has the nuts to question the morality of a 14-year old kid's actions during the damn Holocaust? I mean, isn't that just absurd on face?

When Peretz announces that Pat Buchanon is really not so bad we will know that his journey is complete.

Under/over on when Peretz accuses his left hand of being an anti-semitic Holocaust denier?

How long until Yglesias gets Peretz-tagged as anti-semitic? And isn't there some way we can bet on this fairly? (Or, if that's too difficult to do properly, we could have a broader "Peretz-tagged anti-semite" pool, run analogously to a dead pool.)

Mr Soros. George. I mean, seriously, please.

Can you buy The New Republic ?

While there is still something left of that once great institution ?

Pretty please ?

Speaking of anti-semites...why is Ford (via their Volvo division) sponsoring all the wingnuts over at Pajamas Media these days?

Wieseltier's column has so far been overlooked in these comments, so I thought I'd draw attention to its outrageousness. He calls Judt a "shahid," which is Arabic for "martyr." And we all know what Muslim martyrs do...

The beauty of it is that, if he's called on this, he can always retreat into, "Can't you take a joke?" (Or accuse the accuser of being anti-Muslim.)

Wieseltier is a scoundrel.

Wieseltier writes near the end of his weaselly rant:

Tony Judt is not an anti-Semite, and bully for him. But here he is, on October 6, describing Joe Lieberman as "very ostentatiously Jewish." What the hell does that mean? Is Barack Obama very ostentatiously black?

This is silly. No one would complain if I called George W. Bush "very ostentatiously Christian."

"Very ostentatiously Jewish [or Christian, or Muslim]," as all who aren't feigning ignorance know, means pharisaically religious.

Note, also, Wieseltier's "What the hell does that mean," an unsuccessful attempt at man-on-the-street talk.

dj moonbat and others put their finger on one important aspect. Soros is now being used by the right as a code attack for "jews". This was particularly striking during the early days of the Foley scandal. The equation of Soros = immoral jew manipulating the story and endangering youngpages (because his minions withheld the story,...yada, yada, yada). Of course Pereta and the other Jewish neocons have a different purpose in smearing any Jews (American, more than Israeli) who question Israeli aggression and who want to put pressure on Israelis (and Palestinians) to reach a reasonable agreement. For them this branding of Jewish opposition needs to be dealt with and silenced (just as opposition to the Iraq fiasco had to be stilled).

You obviously hate yourself Matthew, and lots of other people too.

This hairy mischling has difficulty parsing out his own self-hatred from his hatred of Jews generally. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to tell which part of me is the Jew, and which is not (although I had this friend Ari Kirschenbaum growing up and we had that same kind of blondish thick hair that went a bit wavy at puberty - do you think that qualifies as Jew hair?), and which part is doing the hating at which point. Maybe I'll get a subscription to TNR so I can ask Marty these questions myself ony his blog.

You obviously hate yourself Matthew, and lots of other people too.

This hairy mischling has difficulty parsing out his own self-hatred from his hatred of Jews generally. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to tell which part of me is the Jew, and which is not (although I had this friend Ari Kirschenbaum growing up and we had that same kind of blondish thick hair that went a bit wavy at puberty - do you think that qualifies as Jew hair?), and which part is doing the hating at which point. Maybe I'll get a subscription to TNR so I can ask Marty these questions myself ony his blog.

one can only conclude that to people like foxman and peretz, the short-term benefit from crying "anti-semitism!" outweighes the long-term effect, which will be that more and more it falls on deaf ears.

then again, when soros gets booed for mentioning israeli mistreatment of arabs, you know the propaganda has sucken in deep. perhaps they think they really can just milk this cow forever.

I'd imagine we won't ever get to see the words "anti-semite: kise their sting. Something else is going to happen before that. Neocons and High profile ultra ring wing jews like peretz will get us involved in a war that they will argue vocally is done for Israel, to protect it.

This war will be popular, for a year or two. and then we'll get bogged down and our kids wil lstart comming home dead. People will try to get us to leave, but these folks will say we have to stay and protect Israeli's and prevent a new halocaust and all that shit they spout every time they want to fuck your head up and get you not thinking straight. Then we'll pull out, and in all liklihood abandon Israel to it's own devices. You will see the stereo-types of manipulative, greedy jews who want other people childrens to die protecting them gain a lot of credence on the street. We are a very racist country, and theres a lot more anti-semtism under the surface than people like Peretz think, or they wouldn't be poking the bear like this. People will look for a scapegoat, and it won't take much imagination to figure out who WASPS's favorite scapegoat has historically been. Then we'll abandon Israel, a country that can not survive on it's own.

If you care about Israel, you really do have to stop these people. I don't, particularly. They lost my support a long time ago when I became old enough to read history books. A white, european colony in the middle of the most volatile region of the world. Who really thought that was going to end well? Some of you care though, and I'd prefer not to see a lot of innocent people die. They are scared ,and being manipulated by a wicked a cruel government. We know what that's like and we can no more blame them for this, than blame ourselves for what Bush has done.

"A white, european colony in the middle of the most volatile region of the world."

Yes, thanks, Soullite.

"You will see the stereo-types of manipulative, greedy jews who want other people childrens to die protecting them".

Yup. I'm sure you wouldn't be happy if that happens, eh?

Accusations of prejudice aside, Soros' statement is simply factual, at least in the general case. Victims often DO become persecutors. Anyone who's worked in the child abuse field (like me) has seen this many times: Victims of abuse often later become victimizers. (We just saw Mark Foley try to use this well-known fact to his own advantage.) Peretz needs to engage Soros' argument, and explain why he believes the victim-to-victimizer syndrome doesn't apply here, rather than just tossing around inflammatory language. The fact that Soros himself is a Holocaust survivor makes Peretz' behavior repellent as well as illogical.

I like to eat Jews.

I'll eat others, and you.

Check this one out for unashamed prejudice and thuggery:

http://www.tnr.com/blog/spine?pid=46853

Apparently Catholic Schools suck and instead of leftist causes should be taking up fascist ones because those would at least be recognizably Catholic.

A genorous spirit that Peretz

"and Michael Moore (who, not to get too anti-semitic about it, obviously deals with a lot of Jews working in the movie business)"

Does Mel Gibson work with a lot of jews in the movie business?

"Leon Wieseltier explains that Tony Judt also hates the Jews."

You mean the part where he says "Tony Judt is not an anti-Semite, and bully for him." Oh, ok.

Has some type of reverse anti-semitism been invented, where anytime a person complains about someone writing about Israel & and it's jewish supporters in a way that is "icily lacking in decency" in Wieseltier's words, accused of anti-semite baiting.

Matt, you're a smart guy, but you are really doing poor work in this area. At the veyr least you need to gather your thoughts more before posting on this matter.

Matt,

You're one of the smartest commentators around, but I think you misinterpret Peretz and Wieseltier just a bit. No one is slinging around wild accusations of "anti-semitism," much less accusing anyone who doesn't cheer along the Israeli government somehow anti-semitic. Peretz's main contention, it seems to me, is that Soros's sudden suggestions of special concern for Israel are questionable, since he's never evinced any such concern in the past. As Peretz points out, there are plenty of different lobbying groups trying to influence American policy towards Israel, taking all sorts of different views, though the most powerful one is of course AIPAC. But all of these organizations--even/especially the ones hostile to current US and Israeli policy--see themselves as expressions of communal Jewish solidarity, concern, dialogue. Soros, Peretz seems to be saying, has never much cared for anything too Jewish, and his argument that he's doing what he's doing out of concern for Israel is a glaring contrast to his statements in the past. In short, Peretz is upset that Soros seems a bit of a snake-oil salesman regarding "Jewishness" and love for Israel and blah blah blah...

And the article on Tony Judt was certainly not an accusation of self-hatred or anti-semitism. It was just calling the man silly because he acts as if he's being hounded by the secret police when, in fact, he was merely given the boot by an autonomous, non-government organization that wimped out. It's not like Judt is taking any serious risk in asserting his opinions about Israel; the worst that can happen is you get feces in the mail, as happened to Wiesentlier when he said something "vicious" about Israeli settlers. Unlike what might happen to you if you say something like "The last time I was in Miami I SWEAR I saw Muhammad working at a gay bar."

I think once you publish something calling the Walt and Mearshimer paper worse than the Protocols of Zion, nobody requires much evidence that you're a complete tool who spits out the "anti-semite" slur with all of the critical judgment of a water sprinkler. However bad or even malicious the W&M paper, that strikes me as the sort of thing that's appropriate for "Protocols II: Electric Boogaloo" and not much else.

Mortimer Peacock said:

Where's your evidence for Soros' lack of concern in the past? Are you and Marty privy to his inner thoughts? Even if he did lack concern in the past, why is that a problem if he wants to get involved today? You have to have a lifetime of concern or nothing? You can't become concerned later in life? If someone becomes a strong supporter of the Likud later in life, is that also concerning?

Hmm...

Your snake oil point is also odd. Why are his views snake oil and presumably yours and Peretz the Real Thing.

A white, european colony in the middle of the most volatile region of the world. - Soullite

Hate to break it to you, but not all Jews are as white as, e.g., myself or even MY. We come in all colors.

Of course, there are problems with intra-Jewish racism within Israel: Jews from some backgrounds lording it over Jews from other backgrounds, etc. But to say Israel is some sort of White European colony (when many Israelis are from the Arab world ... the Arabs kicked out Jews just as the Israelis kicked out some Palestinians -- so why aren't people mad at the Arabs for kicking out Jews? Because Israel, unlike the Arab countries, didn't force their co-religionists to languish in refugee camps?) is, er, not quite right, and also betrays a subtle racism against white folk. I am not usually one to buy into the "reverse racism" allegations so popular among the righty-tighties, but sometimes when the subject comes to Israel, some lefties really do act like what I would have thought would be strawmen in their strident opposition about "what are white people doing in the middle east".

Oppose all the stupid stuff Israel does and I'll be with ya. Heck ... people like me, even though Jewish, are not even necessarily Zionist in any sense of the word. But don't start complaining about "all Jews are white -- and, what do all those white people think they're doin' in the Middle East" ... let's leave the racism to the right-wingers, shall we?

Just to add to DAS's point: Regardless of whether or not Israelis are "white," it is surely worth something to remember that Israelis don't think of themselves as "white Europeans." Israel was founded because white Europeans were terrorizing and killing Jews, something early Israeli militants made clear when pursuing a campaign of terrorism against the British during the 30s and 40s.

Bob:

I'm not trying to make the case that Peretz's views are
"the Real Thing," and I can't say that Peretz and I agree on the whole Soros issue. I couldn't care less what George Soros does; I was simply refuting Matt's point that Peretz was flailing around making "anti-Semite" and "self-hater" accusations. He isn't, at least in this article. As it happens I'm not too familiar with Peretz, so perhaps I'm being had here. So it goes.

Regardless of whether or not Israelis are "white," it is surely worth something to remember that Israelis don't think of themselves as "white Europeans." Israel was founded because white Europeans were terrorizing and killing Jews - MortimerPeacock

Indeed. In fact, I think left wing criticisms of Israeli actions would sink in more, and hence be more likely to be constructive in having a chance to modify Israeli perceptions and actions, with many Jewish supporters of Israel and Israelis themselves if they were not couched in anti-colonialist rhetoric: to a Zionist, the idea that even European Jews, rejected as we were by Europe for so long, in the Levant are "European colonists" seems ludicrous, even if indeed colonies are often populated by those ejected from their home societies (e.g. the Borderers in Northern Ireland and, as the Scotch Irish, in North America).

Of course, I have personal reasons for my outbursts: as a very light skinned Jew, I find the claim, whether made by anti-Semites or Zionists, that my ancestry is somehow less than "white" because of my and my family's faith, to be absurd and too close to something the Nazis would say for comfort. But as someone with an African-American (and more religiously Jewish than I) girlfriend, I am also very sensative to the claim that "Jewish=white".

" Regardless of whether or not Israelis are "white," it is surely worth something to remember that Israelis don't think of themselves as "white Europeans." "

See:http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/774471.html
" "Israel and Australia are like sisters in Asia," Tamir said in an interview with Haaretz during a visit to Israel this week. "We are in Asia without the characteristics of Asians. We don't have yellow skin and slanted eyes. Asia is basically the yellow race. Australia and Israel are not - we are basically the white race. We are on the western side of Asia and they are on the southeastern side." "

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