Via a gushing K-Lo ("he's a clear thinker on this war. And isn't his honesty about the stakes and his principles — even if you're someone who disagrees with him on this or that — reason enough to want him reelected"), Rick Santorum's bafflingly stupid speech on "the gathering storm" facing the United States:
Mr. Casey said that "the U.S. should not escalate the drive to place weapons in space and should seek an international ban on such weaponry." I hate to break the news to you, but Iran and North Korea are already escalating things. . . .Let me tell you, Mr. Casey, people are concerned when Venezuela is harboring terrorists, many of whom will penetrate our border because of the amnesty bill you support, that puts amnesty before security.
And just think -- what if the Venezuelan terrorists get on the Iranian space station? What then Mr. Casey, huh? huh? Seriously, these people are morons. Dangerously dishonest or (I fear) dangerously confused about what's going on in the world. "Say what you will," remarks Lopez, "but this is leadership." Custer-quality leadership at that.
Kudos, incidentally, to Bob Casey for taking on the administration's bafflingly wrongheaded National Space Strategy. This is exactly the sort of ground where Democrats normally fear to tread.
Comments
They really imagine themselves as James Bond taking on SPECTRE don't they?
Did you hear? Casey was delivered to his last campaign stop in a black U.N. helicopter.
The fact that Tommy Franks thought Doug Feith was the Dumbest Fucking Guy on the Face of the Earth shows us that he hadn't personally encountered Santorum.
Give him a break, he's only a second generation animatronic Senator with the equivalent of a Commodore 64 processor powering his political pronouncements.
Nah that is just good message discipline.
Child care? Terra!!
Immigration? Terra Terra!!
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I agree Santorum is a moron.
But explain again why weaponizing space is "dangerously wrongheaded"? It's not likely to result in either us or our potential enemies having more destructive capacity than we already have (i.e. the power to destroy the world). Seems to me like the worst it can do is cost us money.
"And just think -- what if the Venezuelan terrorists get on the Iranian space station."
lol...
Wasn't that the plot of Moonraker?
I think James Wolcott may have hit the definitive K-Lo takedown a week or two ago:
There are times when K'Lo's innocence is almost touching. Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, the Lucky Charms leprechaun--she believes in them and, more importantly, they believe in her. But perhaps she should leave her naivete at home when she ventures out into adult society unsupervised. There are too many people out there willing to exploit her wide-eyed wonder.
People should be aware that funding for ballistic missile defense provides a backdoor for the development of technologies that could easily be converted into offensive space weapons. I suspect that is one of the reasons that neocons and other conservatives are so into missile defense.
Her desperate, pleading posts about why Santorum deserves to be re-elected are so pathetic. If it's such a damn shame that he's gonna lose, K-Lo, than maybe you Republicans shouldn't have screwed up the country so much? He might've had a chance at winning if not for that teensy little thing!
"But explain again why weaponizing space is "dangerously wrongheaded"? It's not likely to result in either us or our potential enemies having more destructive capacity than we already have (i.e. the power to destroy the world). Seems to me like the worst it can do is cost us money."
Space junk in orbit is one thing. Remote-controlled nukes are something else.
Say: what happens if one of the launch vehicles fails on ascent?
"Say what you will," remarks Lopez, "but this is leadership." Custer-quality leadership at that.
This must be one of those MY homophonic substitutions, where you meant to type "custard-quality," right?
but Iran and North Korea are already escalating things. . . .
To wit:
Every action has a cause and a consequence: something that led to it and something that followed from it. But research shows that while people think of their own actions as the consequences of what came before, they think of other people’s actions as the causes of what came later.
Santorum and K.lo. The problem: they think they're dispassionate realists, but if they'd only examine the evidence supporting this belief (that they're dispassionate realists) with the same dispassion, they would quickly realize that they are behaving in a manner that is anything but reasonable.
Both are successful because a lot of people in America are thinking this way.
For many Americans, being more ruthlessly violent is not only the best solution, it's the only solution. For them, everything else is fantasy. To them, this is so obvious that it doesn't even need to be supported by any evidence. People who disagree with them are either weak, pure idiots, or naive fools.
Why are weapons in space dangerous? Instability. Currently, all nuclear powers are deterred from using their weapons by the prospect of retaliation. If some future space-based weapons system were likely to grant America a first strike ability or the power to stop incoming nuclear warheads en masse...well, another power might feel compelled to prevent it before they were rendered powerless. The importance of making no one feel vulnerable was the basis of the ABM treaty in 1972 and all the arms control agreements (that and cost reduction).
The prospect of such a troubling situation is more remote following the cold war, but why pursue a policy that makes it more likely?
You know who I hear they're hiding in Venezuela? Carmen Sandiego. If there's anyone I don't trust, it's someone who gets their own PBS show.
Dangerously wrongheaded, indeed. Didn't any of you people ever watch Star Trek? "Assignment: Earth" -- after time traveling to the 20th century, the Enterprise accidentally intercepts a handsome alien sent to prevent Earth from weaponizing space. Thrilling!
If there's anyone I don't trust, it's someone who gets their own PBS show.
Especially somebody who could give the Venezuelan terrorists access to time travel technology related program activities.
But explain again why weaponizing space is "dangerously wrongheaded"? It's not likely to result in either us or our potential enemies having more destructive capacity than we already have (i.e. the power to destroy the world). Seems to me like the worst it can do is cost us money.
And geopolitical reasons aside, that's reason enough. Let's get real here: When the Cheney administration talks space weapons, what they mean is, "Yo, Raytheon, LockMart, Boeing, Northrop Grumman -- belly up boys! Gonna open up a whole new bottomless trough, and the suckers are paying!"
How's about we for once apply a little white elephant contraception? Once the monsters are spawned, they're real hard to kill, no matter how nonsensical they are. Look at practically any big-ticket Air Force program over the last 10-15 years.
Sorry to disillusion Matt, but Custer was a pretty damned good leader. He bit the dust because there were more Indians at the Little Big Horn than anyone could expect and because his subordinate battalion commanders were mediocrities who disliked him rather than his usual trusted subordinates. Considering that he was about 25 when the Civil War ended, his achievements at Gettysburg and Waynesboro, and in the whole Valley campaign, should entitle him to considerable respect.
When Santorum gets to book six and finds out that you can just think spells and not even have to say them outloud, then it's really going to get interesting as he strives to protect the muggles.
He bit the dust because there were more Indians at the Little Big Horn than anyone could expect . . .
Good move. Blame intelligence.
Tomlin wins.
Some good comments on why weapons in space are a bad thing - they cost money, and they fuel distrust between nuclear powers. These are both true. But I respond that:
1) The air force and navy and army are already asking for more money for more expensive boondoggles than even Bush will ever give them. Space will be just one more thing.
2) In case anyone's noticed, there's already not a lot of trust between the U.S. and our major nuclear competitors (of which there is one, Russia). They're actively trying to undermine our influence in every part of the world, supporting anti-US rogue states in going nuclear, and making occasional nuclear threats against us. How is space going to make this worse?
I just don't see this as something to get worked up about. And wringing our hands and saying "Oh no! Weapons in SPACE!" reinforces the stereotype that we Dems are basically against weapons of any kind, anywhere.
Custer? Seriously? The man didn't bother to scout them at all, he just charged. They saw the camp's tracks before they found the camp. Crazy Horse had more then enough guys at the Battle of the Powder River to have dealt with the 7th Calvary when he defeated Crooke (who was actually a good general)
That was all Custer ever did was just charge. The first time he ran up against somebody who's stand and fight him, he slaughtered his command to no purpose.
A hint to K.J. Lopez: when you defer to a very stupid person, it makes you look even stupider, even if you're just naive and/or craven.
As Atrios noted, the amount of ridicule directed at 'Senator Sanitorium' over the past few years has probably contributed to his fate. Even the bits of Pennsylvania that are essentially Alabama have probably noticed that much of the country is laughing at their judgement. (Not you, Texas. Or Virginia, either.)
"Custer was a pretty damned good leader."
Custer was a damned fool, who however could sometimes be a useful damned fool when under tight control by somebody like Sheridan. Those days were well behind him by 1876. He was never much of a leader, though . . .
2) In case anyone's noticed, there's already not a lot of trust between the U.S. and our major nuclear competitors (of which there is one, Russia). They're actively trying to undermine our influence in every part of the world, supporting anti-US rogue states in going nuclear, and making occasional nuclear threats against us. How is space going to make this worse?
By escalating it. You think Russia is currently at their theoretical maximum level of actively trying to undermine US influence? By pissing off China to no end, making them rush harder to be a legitimate nuclear competitor, and muuch morel ikely to work at undermining US influence in their region.
And all for what benefit? Nuclear space lasers? It seems like an obvious case of a major downside with very little visible upside. It's another case of the neocon insanity that there's no point to actual diplomacy.
It's an awesome moment. Building 'Star Wars' could put so much junk in orbit that it would become unsafe, or practically impossible, for people to leave earth. At the very time when people might most want to send a few humans on a search for an inhabitable planet, it might have become impossible to do so.
Yes, there is the possibility of a launch failure and a plume of plutonium over Florida.
The American Air Force wants the capability to bombard anyone on earth with a variety of weapons, or to use a sort of 'death ray' to burn the earth.
The Chinese, meanwhile, have been developing lasers to blind our 'eyes in space'. Ha ha, wouldn't that be a joke on us if they developed something cheap that they could distribute freely to other nations.
You may now resume your regularly scheduled viewing of mid-70s space operas.
The most compelling reason to avoid making space a battleground is that we benefit disproportionately from having it not be one.
The US and its closest allies have the most sophisticated satelites. Only we have access to the high-accuracy settings of GPS. Our spy satelites are much better than everyone else's. Our weather prediction is better, our secure communications are better, and so on. These satelites are all essentially defenseless. Warfare in space will be almost entirely offensive. There is no terrain to use defensively, and the targets are all fragile and very expensive. There are not even any civilians to worry about.
Any prolonged build up leaves us more vulnerable than we were. Even if we spend a thousand times as much on space weapons as an adversary, we are worse off than if neither side spent anything. In contrast, a launch of an anti-satelite weapon from the ground during wartime would be incredibly vulnerable to preemption.
The only reasons for weaponizing space are corporate welfare and strutting.
I can't pretend to be a weapons expert. But I doubt that nukes in space are going to happen, A) because they'd be unsafe to launch (if the rocket blows up America would be showered with plutonium), B) because they'd be much more easily knocked out than the nuclear missiles we already have on the ground, and C) because the U.S. is currently decreasing, not increasing, its numbers of nukes.
And Njorl's argument doesn't frankly make a whole lot of sense to me. We already have spy satellites and communications satellites, so naturally the Chinese and Russians are already developing the capability to take out our satellites in case of a war, as Serial Catowner points out. I just don't see how us developing space weapons would change this equation.
I think that arguing for "diplomacy" as a substitute for, instead of a complement to military power is somewhat of a fallacy. The idea that "if we don't have weapons at all, it'll be easier to talk hostile states into doing what we'd like them to do" seems a little absurd on its face.
"And Njorl's argument doesn't frankly make a whole lot of sense to me. We already have spy satellites and communications satellites, so naturally the Chinese and Russians are already developing the capability to take out our satellites in case of a war, as Serial Catowner points out. I just don't see how us developing space weapons would change this equation."
There is presently no effective and economical means available to our enemies to affect satellites from the ground. The Chinese and Russians can work on it all they want, they are spending money that could otherwise harm us more.
On the other hand, weapons based in space would be highly effective and economical in destroying our satellites. There would be no economical countermeasures (other than maintaining peace). Such systems require lengthy deployment time and extensive testing. If we agree to no weaponization of space by anybody, we preserve our extensive advantage. If we develop a huge and sophisticated arsenal in space, and our enemies have a tiny one, we become weaker than we are now.
Space-based weapons are almost entirely restricted to attacking space-based targets. Those are almost entirely ours. Supporting a ban on developing them is like supporting a ban on bioweapons that kill people who speak English.
I've often heard speculation about developing particle beam weapons or something like that, which could be used to zap missiles from space. The catch being, I suppose, that they can never be made powerful enough.
However, imagine how effective a weapon would be that could instantaneously zap a person on the ground from space. I'm not saying I support the development of something like that. But, you can't discount its possible usefulness.
I'm not sure if any weapons like that are under consideration. Its pretty likely, though, that anti-satellite weapons are being looked into.
However, imagine how effective a weapon would be that could instantaneously zap a person on the ground from space. I'm not saying I support the development of something like that. But, you can't discount its possible usefulness.
You've hauled an energy source up to space to produce a directed beam that's strong enough to penetrate the atmosphere and kill a human just in case you might want to zap a single guy someday.
Mmmm. Mmmmm. That reminds me of the waste and folly that Grandma used to make. And just in time for the Thanksgiving holidays, too!
I have little doubt that Matt read the recent House report discussing Venezuela, he just forgot about it before writing this post.
For his readers who'd like to be clued in a bit better than Matt, go to tinyurl.com/y9msjh (PDF file from house.gov), which contains this:
Furthermore, according to senior U.S. military and intelligence officials, Venezuela is
emerging as a potential hub of terrorism in the Western Hemisphere, providing assistance
to Islamic radicals from the Middle East and other terrorists.117
General James Hill, commander of U.S. Southern Command, has warned the United
States faces a growing risk from both Middle Eastern terrorists relocating to Latin
America and terror groups originating in the region. General Hill said groups such as
Hezbollah had established bases in Latin America. These groups are taking advantage of
smuggling hotspots, such as the tri-border area of Brazil, Argentina and Paraguay, and
Venezuela’s Margarita Island, to channel funds to terrorist groups around the world.118
Venezuela is providing support—including identity documents—that could prove useful
to radical Islamic groups, say some U.S. officials. The Venezuelan government has
issued thousands of cedulas, the equivalent of Social Security cards, to people from
places such as Cuba, Columbia, and Middle Eastern nations that host foreign terrorist
organizations. The U.S. officials believe that the Venezuelan government is issuing the
documents to people who should not be getting them and that some of these cedulas
could be subsequently used to obtain Venezuelan passports and even American visas,
which could allow the holder to elude immigration checks and enter the United States.119
Recently, several Pakistanis were apprehended at the U.S.-Mexican border with
fraudulent Venezuelan documents.120
"However, imagine how effective a weapon would be that could instantaneously zap a person on the ground from space. I'm not saying I support the development of something like that. But, you can't discount its possible usefulness."
That's spending billions of dollars to do something any competent hitman can do. Plus, a hitman can kill people who are indoors. If your hitman is destroyed, you can get another one somewhere, because they are a dual use technology commonly employed in the private sector. Hitmen are likely to spend their pay, and thereby contribute to the economy. In their old age, hitmen might have amusing anecdotes to share with non-fiction writers.
On the whole, I'd rather have hitmen.
"according to senior U.S. military and intelligence officials, Venezuela is emerging as a potential hub of terrorism in the Western Hemisphere, providing assistance to Islamic radicals from the Middle East and other terrorists"
But according to my Rand-McNally atlas, Venezuela is still terrestrial. Admittedly, my atlas is a bit out of date, but if Venezuela had been recently launched into orbit, I think I might have read about it either in the paper, or somewhere on the interwebs.
"You've hauled an energy source up to space to produce a directed beam that's strong enough to penetrate the atmosphere and kill a human just in case you might want to zap a single guy someday."
There have been several cases in recent history where, if we had a weapon like that, it would have been useful. For example, trying to kill Bin Laden in the late 1990's. In a way, a weapon like that seems kind of scary to me, in that it would give the President a "Zeus-like" power, the ability to assassinate someone without any warning, and possibly even without traceability.
"And just think -- what if the Venezuelan terrorists get on the Iranian space station? What then Mr. Casey, huh? huh?"
As one of K-Lo's growing number of Democratic fans this year, I have to keep coming back to this line and laughing. Bravo.
"There have been several cases in recent history where, if we had a weapon like that, it would have been useful. For example, trying to kill Bin Laden in the late 1990's. In a way, a weapon like that seems kind of scary to me, in that it would give the President a "Zeus-like" power, the ability to assassinate someone without any warning, and possibly even without traceability."
First, to shoot at Bin Laden, you have to know it's Bin Laden. All means of knowing this - drone, guy with binoculars etc- can be equipped with weapons. In fact, it is much easier to put missiles on a drone than to maneuver a satellite into position at just the right time. Satellites are a real bitch to put at just the right spot at just the right time.
So, guy with a telescope spots OBL. He calls up Orbital Strike Command and requests a hit. Four hours later, they tell him the satellite is in position! Or, he can shoot him with a sniper rifle.
And untraceable?!?!? When people start spontaneously combusting and leaving a circular scorch mark where they had been standing, don't you think that the one nation with space based weapons might be suspected? A bullet in the head doesn't do that quite so much.
I didn't visit the pages above, but I'm going to guess that attempts to confuse space weapons with terrorist threats in Venezuela is just Matt's imagining.
The house.gov PDF file I provided above directly addresses this question, and I doubt that Matt knew about that PDF file. I also question whether Matt has read Chapter3 of the 911Commission StaffReport, which goes into the general question of terrorist infiltration. It also mentions a terrorist who almost got citizenship through an amnesty scheme similar to the one that Casey supports.
Perhaps Matt should do a bit more research into these issues before discussing them in a public forum.
Sorry, Custer denigrators, I can't agree. As to the charge that he never scouted, the fact is that he made his mark (as a very recent and very undistinguished West Point graduate) by his very ability to scout and write clear reports on what he had seen. And as to "all he could do was charge, and he lost when he found someone who would stand up to him" -- tell that to Wade Hampton.
Remember that Sheridan, perhaps a damned fool himself, felt so little need to keep Custer on a short leash that he left him in independent command in early 1865 when he returned to the A of P.
Here is Jerry Pournelle on the subject:
[Good news:
Bush signs space policy stressing security issues
The first full update in 10 years, document rejects future agreements on arms control
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/002837.html
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/space/4267069.html
Excerpt:
Nevertheless, Michael Krepon, co-founder of the Henry L. Stimson Center, a nonpartisan think tank that follows the space weaponry issue, said the policy changes will reinforce international suspicions that the United States may seek to develop, test and deploy space weapons.
To which I can only say, YES!!
SO far it all reads like the document drafted here at Chaos Manor in 1988 and 1989, by the Citizens Advisory Council on National Space Policy, J. E. Pournelle, Ph.D., Chairman.
General Graham took part in that meeting, as did Lowell Wood and a number of others.
We urged that policy on Bush I, as did his Chairman of the National Space Council, VP Dan Quayle, but Bush did not sign it, and Clinton certainly wouldn't.]
I'm going to go with Pournelle on this one.
Yes, the science fiction writers lobby definitely wants it, think of the literary possibilities of SPACE WAR! Pournelle's unhinged nuttiness makes for good fiction possibilities...I especially liked his book about the heroic white supremacists fighting the primitive black gangster / cannibals from inner city Oakland after an asteroid wipes out Western civilization. But policy advice...not so much.
Custer, the Lonewhacko and Jerry Pournelle. What is it about space weapons that brings out the loonies?
Three phrases should be among the most common in our daily usage. They are: Thank you, I am grateful and I appreciate.
Three phrases should be among the most common in our daily usage. They are: Thank you, I am grateful and I appreciate.
Yes, the science fiction writers lobby definitely wants it, think of the literary possibilities of SPACE WAR! Pournelle's unhinged nuttiness makes for good fiction possibilities...I especially liked his book about the heroic white supremacists fighting the primitive black gangster / cannibals from inner city Oakland after an asteroid wipes out Western civilization. But policy advice...not so much.
Custer, the Lonewhacko and Jerry Pournelle. What is it about space weapons that brings out the loonies?
To which I can only say, YES!!
SO far it all reads like the document drafted here at Chaos Manor in 1988 and 1989, by the Citizens Advisory Council on National Space Policy, J. E. Pournelle, Ph.D., Chairman.
Bush signs space policy stressing security issues
The first full update in 10 years, document rejects future agreements on arms control
Excerpt:
Nevertheless, Michael Krepon, co-founder of the Henry L. Stimson Center, a nonpartisan think tank that follows the space weaponry issue, said the policy changes will reinforce international suspicions that the United States may seek to develop, test and deploy space weapons.
To which I can only say, YES!!
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I follow what Joshua Porter is doing, and I think he nailed it, personal value must preced network value. In this case, Facebook has 0 value if you don’t added friends yet. zero. nada.
People should be aware that funding for ballistic missile defense provides a backdoor for the development of technologies that could easily be converted into offensive space weapons. I suspect that is one of the reasons that neocons and other conservatives are so into missile defense.
"Honest like a moron" lol that's a bit ironic but very good touching. It's really an intersting article, thanks for sharing.
To a good first approximation, Obama seems to be the sort of nominee you're looking for
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