The Party of Ideas

John Kerry (who, one notes, is not actually up for election this year) for having made . . . a sloppily-worded joke about how stupid people such as George W. Bush wind up blundering their countries into horribly misguided military adventures

Reminds me of another Senator who made a sloppily worded remark... Trent Lott. It was convenient for Democrats and the MSM (and Matthew) to interpret Lott's remark as an endorsement of segregation. Of course it was just a sloppily worded praise of Strom Thurmond and said nothing at all about segregation - but the powers on the left chose to interpret it differently.

So, hey, if the powers on the right choose to interpret Kerry remark as a slam against our soldiers in Iraq, well, who am I to stop them? Kerry should get the same leeway to "explain" his remark as Trent Lott got.

John McCain wants an apology. Who am I to say he is wrong to demand one?

Al wrote: "Republicans can't run on their horribly failed foreign policy, so who am I to say they shouldn't be grasping at straws?"

Well put, straw Al.

no sex for twentysomething single people

from what i hear a certain m. yglesias would be a model young republican....

So, hey, if the powers on the right choose to interpret Kerry remark as a slam against our soldiers in Iraq, well, who am I to stop them? Kerry should get the same leeway to "explain" his remark as Trent Lott got.

A good partisan hack will ignore the merits of any particular complaint and make it somehow the other guy's fault. A _great_ partisan hack will concede the merits of the complaint and nevertheless insist that it's the other guy's fault. And gentlemen, I think we are in the presence of greatness.

Who cares what a party led by two draft dodgers says? If they feel outraged, tell 'em to put a purple-hearted band-aid over it. Why would anyone pay any attention to them?

So Kerry said something that everyone knows is true but good people don't say in public.

That is, he said something "politically incorrect".

Proving once again that the biggest purveyors of political correctness are conservatives.

from what i hear a certain m. yglesias would be a model young republican....

Now, that's not very nice. Anyway, the young republicans want no sex for other people.

Doug, as someone with family and friends in Iraq right now. you're an asshole. and wrong.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/cda06-09.cfm

I realize that it's the Heritage Foundation but they give you the sourcing for their data. it's accurate. and it's data that is well-known to anyone who knows anything about the military. since the early 1980's the military has been solidly middle class. I realize that people in the Northeast (I now reside in NYC) and the West Coast are ignorant of this.

Well, it was a stupid thing to say...might have cost us a news cycle.

Good god, what an amazingly stupid non-issue.

Still, it was kind of a dumb thing to say. What he should have said is that if kids don't study, they could end up not having sex until they're 30.

Kerry blew it. All he had to do was make clear he flubbed the joke and meant to say, "You'll get us stuck in Iraq" and the story would have died down. Instead, he spent 95% of the press conference attacking Tony Snow and Rush Limbaugh and a result, ensured (1) the story will dominate the news cycle (the media always loves a war of words) (2)what Kerry was really trying to say will go unreported. Complain about how unfair the Republican noise machine is, but why give them enough rope to hang yourself with?

I'm not a big TNR fan, but I think Michael Crowley gets it right.

Yes, but when are the campaigns against spitting, swearing, and impure touching of oneself (or others) going to start?

"Kind of a dumb thing to say?"

Kerry is having some difficulty making the case that it was a "botched joke about Bush," since he, um, er, didn't use Bush's name in the joke. Nevertheless, he could have cut this whole mess off at the pass if he had pro-actively apologized to anyone who was offended. Instead, he said, "I apologize to no one!"

Yes, indeed Kerry "cost us a news cycle" -- one week before the election. And his "no apology" stance will cost at least one more news cycle, probably more as he idiotically drags it out until, finally, he will realize he has to apologize. If you're a Democratic candidate out there this week, you're surely expecting your opponent to demand you disassociate yourself from Kerry's statement. The local media, to be fair & balanced, is likely to highlight this "localization" of the story. If Kerry weren't such a selfish prick, he'd realize that, and issue the necessary apology -- which the other candidates could then use to deflect the issue (e.g. "Sen. Kerry has apologized, and I think that was the appropriate thing to do. Next!"

Why the rush here and throughout the Democratic Party world to defend the ill manners of our miserable failure of a 2004 candidate? What is this co-dependency with a wealthy, vain mediocrity who absolutely does not walk his own talk? Cut him loose! Kick him off the island! Adios!

from what i hear a certain m. yglesias would be a model young republican....

All lies, I assure you.

Nathan: C'Mon, it's the Heritage foundation. It's got fuzzy math all over the place.

The army recruiting class tilts rural, has a higher African-American population than the public as a whole, and has more members who are "working class"—$30-55K— than "middle class" of $40K-$75K. Also I suspect that the working-class tilt of white enlistees is even more pronounced.

The pressure on a Dem candidate in a tight race will be particularly intense to go after Kerry.
Heck, Webb is probably personally incensed, he has a son in Iraq.

Nicholas:

um, did you read their cites? thought not.
the stats are accurate. the military has been solidly middle class since the early 1980's. it does indeed tilt rural, but it's middle-class rural. (if my fellow denizens of NYC actually knew what the incomes of farming families were....)
yes, minorities do make up a disproportionate share of military recruits. however, Caucasians make up a disproportionate share of combat casualties and injuries. why? whites tend to go into combat positions, minorities into support roles (usually cause they're joining up for college tuition). the major exception to this is the strong Hispanic presence in the Marine Corps (a recent phenomenon).

"members who are "working class"—$30-55K— than "middle class" of $40K-$75K. Also I suspect that the working-class tilt of white enlistees is even more pronounced."

this is actually backward. look up the ethnic makeup of officers.

Give me a break, people. The wingnuts always find something to fly into a manufactured tizzy over. It's silly to pretend that there's some magic word Kerry could say to make the whole feeding frenzy go away, so stop kidding yourselves.

John McCain is not regarded by the public as a "wingnut," and I think his statements add up to more than a "tizzy."

Or, maybe you like being in the minority for another 2-10 years.

You're right. Kerry could say almost anything now and the voters would still think he is a self-righteous, spoiled, arrogant, elitist asshole. It's the Democratic Party that needs to say some magic words -- like, "this self-righteous, spoiled, arrogant, elitist asshole doesn't speak for us."

Why the rush here and throughout the Democratic Party world to defend the ill manners of our miserable failure of a 2004 candidate? What is this co-dependency with a wealthy, vain mediocrity who absolutely does not walk his own talk?

I don't see any rush to defend Kerry; what I see is a lot of people saying, accurately, that a) Kerry doesn't have a lot of relevance to anything right now, and b) this is a monumentally silly non-issue manufactured by the Republican noise machine. Which, really, I'm having a very hard time seeing how anyone could argue otherwise. That's not to say that the Republican noise machine hasn't succeeded in manufacturing this non-issue; it's simply to say that there is absolutely no substantive issue worth considering here.

It's probably worth mentioning, pro forma, that Al is blowing smoke about Trent Lott. Lott had a long record of using the same line about Thurmond's campaign, as well as a lot of other dalliances with neo-Confederates. The actual racist leanings of the Majority Leader of the Senate were properly a big deal, not like this bullshit.

I agree that there's no substantive issue here, but, like it or not, it does have legs politically. I guess the question is whether Kerry did the right thing in his press conference: by coming out swinging and not apologizing, he practically ensured that the next couple of news cycles will be dominated by this controversy. He also didn't a very good job of explaining what he really meant to say. On the other hand, Kos et al. are saying that it was important for Kerry to look tough, and not back down.

Sorry, but just one more post on this for me: Kerry's a "monumentally silly non-issue" -- absolutely, and he has been since the day after he lost. But his comment unfortunately plays into a stereotype of how Democrats regard the military. Which is why the Republicans can get mileage from it. And why it can have legs in the individual campaigns where we're trying to convince the voters the Democrats can be trusted on defense matters.

If this had happened in May -- I agree, no big deal, let it die of its own weight. But it's a week out from the election, which magnifies it. So why doesn't the Democratic Party do in early November what they will surely do if we fall short -- acknowledge it was a mistake, stop defending it, and stop defending the person who said it.

I want to meet the person who is going to change their vote next week because of what John Kerry said, or whether his explanation was good enough, or whatever. Seriously, show me that person.

My sense is that in 2006 the electorate is tired of the same old bullshit. If not, then guess what, there's nothing we can do about it. I flat-out reject John S.'s formulation that we need to find a way to appease Saint John McCain or else we're doomed to another decade in the minority. If he has credibility with the public, and if he's going to make statements that are complete bullshit, there's nothing we can do to stop him, so quit wetting the bed over it.

See a tongue-in-cheek posting that employs the same GOP tactic used in relation to Senator Kerry to creatively interpret remarks made by the President in the most unfavorable manner...here:

www.thoughttheater.com

I agree it's stupid to change your vote because of what John Kerry said, but, unfortunately, people don't always vote based on a cerebral thought process. It's never good for the Democratic Party for one of their leaders to appear to be insulting miltary people (even if he really didn't), especially in states like Virginia and Tennessee. The bigger issue is that this will motivate the conservative voter base to turn out.

Again, the real question for me is, given Kerry's mistake yesterday, was the best strategy for him to hit back like he did this afternoon? I'm starting to be persuaded that, given the mistake, given that the story was already leading the news cycles, maybe it was better for him to be tough.

unfortunately, in tight races, things like this matter (absent landslides, the margins matter in politics, because motivating even a tiny percent of undecideds is what decides things).

whether they should matter is a different issue, but no one can pretend either party doesn't try to make mountains from similar molehills all the time. those of you complaining this really has nothing to do with the issues ignore the fact that much if not most of politics has nothing to do with the issues (at least any sort of sober, reasoned analysis of the merits of the various issues facing the electorate).

what i love about this is how incredibly dumb kerry is. lots of folk really don't like him, he's been accused of hating/betraying the military, so he goes back to the well another time? (by contrast, someone like hilary is smart enough not to walk right into the fan over and over again, avoiding unnecessarily giving those who hate her -- rightly or wrongly -- further reason to do so).

i can't really even imagine what competent politicians would look (and sound) like.

has a higher African-American population than the public as a whole

IIRC, this goes away when you adjust for age. Older cohorts are whiter than younger ones and, obviously, the military is a pretty youthful organization.

I want to meet the person who is going to change their vote next week because of what John Kerry said, or whether his explanation was good enough, or whatever. Seriously, show me that person.

It's not that guy, it's the guy who was going to sit at home watching Deal or No Deal instead of voting that worries me.

Yeah, right. I wasn't going to vote, but then when I heard John Kerry say that people who get bad grades go on to join the military, I was so outraged that I went to vote straight Republican. You guys are paranoid because of the last two elections and you're seeing monsters under the bed.

"was the best strategy for him to hit back like he did this afternoon?"

Absolutely.

Kerry is not making the mistake he made with the Swift Boat attacks. He is punching back. He is going on the offense.

It is obvious Kerry was calling Bush dumb. He fumbled the sentence. He should not apologize. He is right to demand that it is Bush who ought to apologize to the country for launching a ruinous war based on lies.

Kerry is not making the mistake he made with the Swift Boat attacks. He is punching back. He is going on the offense.

Probably right. Of course, option C, not flubbing a crappy joke the week before an election, might have been the best. Thankfully, this certainly torpedoes him for '08. Deciding he was the best we had in '04 is almost as weird as the GOP deciding Bush was best qualified (not to win, but to actually, you know, be President)

Kerry might not have been the best candidate we could have nominated, but he wasn't bad. I still remember how he wiped the floor with Bush in the debates. I think the country just wasn't quite ready to get rid of Bush yet. 9/11 created a trauma and a need for a "strong leader" (or the fantasy of one) that last quite some time. People were a little too scared to see through the illusion.

I'm sorry but this just shows what a pathetic waste Kerry was as a candidate for prez. Witless.

I'm hoping if this does anything, it just might make it a bit more obvious that the jr Senator from Mass need to be content staying just where he is.

What a slow-thinking, uninteresting loser.

And the bad jokes roll on...

This administration's Iraq adventure was a joke in its planning and second half execution yet it is now a fiercely unfunny situation.

George W. Bush, a Cs and Ds college student who dodged a draft through spotty time in ANG, and whose grand leadership led us into this mess in the first place, now waxes outraged in defense of military volunteers and recruits who are dying ad infinitum in his name, for reasons that he can't properly articulate. Gleefully humorous only to sadists and republican strategists.

"I want to meet the person who is going to change their vote next week because of what John Kerry said, or whether his explanation was good enough, or whatever. Seriously, show me that person."

Wow -- wishful thinking, this.

The Democrats have put themselves in a position to win, but it's been a cautious, slow process to shift the focus away from their left wing's anti-military/Vietnam syndrome mentality, and toward the idea that they could do a better job than Bush in dealing with Iraq. Kerry's two-fer (the original remark, and then today's meltdown) puts that issue right in the center of the election.

Yeah, I think there are voters who were going to vote Dem who will not do so now. I think there are voters who were going to stay home who will go out and vote Reep now. You need to get out more.

Al's middle name is tu quoque

I wish there was some way of actually measuring the impact of episodes such as this, because I suspect that it isn't as great as we in the political junkie class think it is. Of course, the Corner and its readership will work itself into a lather--what else could they do? But what are the chances of typical, realistic Americans reacting likewise. More probably, they will think "stupid politician," move on, and vote as they had previously intended.

I mean, it's easy to believe that most Americans have K-lo brains, but they don't.

Look, it's no surprise the Republicans would try to say the decorated war veteran hates the military. That's the lie they won with last time. Why the hell do Democrats internalize the same thing. Ooh, ooh, something happened that made Karl Rove happy. Oooh, bad John Kerry to fuck up a speech. Now we're gonna lose, because people always believe their lies and there's nothing we can do.
That last part is right. There's nothing we can do. If people are so mentally and morally defective they'll fall for this, they were hopeless before it happened.
But I don't think many of the voters who're capable of changing their minds are going to let this affect them. They're not electing Kerry president. They're voting about what happened because they didn't.

Maybe I'm nuts, but after watching a video of Kerry's response, I don't feel too bad about this. Kerry slipped up on the joke, sure, but he did the right thing in hitting back hard, and he hammered away at his two main points the whole time (I'm a veteran and I'd never insult them, this is all a distraction from the way Bush is fucking up the war). Apologizing would've been the wrong way to go because there's no apology he could've made that would've been sufficient to prevent these people from trying to drag this out as long as possible (calling his first apology insufficient, demanding a second and a third apology, etc.). By responding this way, he makes this a story about the war, so his side in the inevitable "he said she said" story refocuses the debate on the GOP's biggest weakness this year. You can already see this process happening in the Times and WaPo coverage, where Bush's attack on Kerry is explicitly framed within the context of GOP attempts to change the subject from Iraq, and the more Iraq comes up, the more it has to hurt Republicans. It would obviously have been better if the incident never happened, but given that it did, Kerry handled it pretty well.

Doug, people who enlist come disproportionately from communities of color and from rural America. That doesn't mean they're stupid. It's more likely a reflection of the fact there are no good-paying jobs in those areas.

i can't really even imagine what competent politicians would look (and sound) like.

I would put Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton in this category for realizing that "pandering to the liberal blogosphere's every arbitrary whim" is not a good political strategy. John Kerry, on the other hand, has been doing little but that since 2004. That's been Ned Lamont's strategy as well.

Amazingly, Al made a pretty good point upthread about the Lott/Kerry comparison. Leaving aside the actual merit behind each case, the reason why the Lott thing was so devastating was because it fed into one of the negative frames that exist about Republicans: that they're closet racists. Kerry's remarks have the potential to be damaging because they feed into a negative stereotype about Democrats: that they're smug elitists who look down on patriotic Americans.

Remember, Lott refused to apologize for 4 or 5 days before he finally realized he'd have to. Tom DeLay fought back pretty hard for all of 2005, and he still hasn't admitted any wrongdoing. Look how well that benefited his party: it played perfectly into the "culture of corruption" meme and could possibly cost them an otherwise safe House seat in Texas. We can't afford to have Kerry take Markos' brilliant advice and get into a big-swinging-dick contest with George Bush on an issue where 1) we're playing defense, and 2) takes up the week before the election.

My first reaction to this story was that this hurt Kerry. If Kerry drags this out, it's gonna hurt the whole party.

Remember, Lott refused to apologize for 4 or 5 days before he finally realized he'd have to.

Also remember that non-blog media didn't pick up Lott's remark at all for several days. And that all of this happened in the middle of December during a series of slow news cycles, when there wasn't any other domestic political news to compete with his gaffe. If Lott had made his remarks a couple months previously - or a few months later, while the war was setting off - he'd probably still have his job.

Have you ever noticed how many Republican trolls have family and friends in Iraq? I mean there are only 140K soldiers in country and yet every troll states the same thing. Nathan - you tub of goo, the Heritage numbers are for the military as a whole, not for troops in Iraq - Army grunts and Marines. Troll better next time

Chris is right - focusing on Iraq and our troops in harms way and who put them there is a real loser for Dems.

“We have certainly advised candidates to not appear that they are marching in lock step with the administration in terms of how the Iraq war is being conducted,” a senior Republican Party Senate strategist said, insisting on anonymity in exchange for disclosing political advice being given to candidates. “If you aren’t speaking out against the way that this war has been conducted, you are dead in the water.”

This is no big deal. It is clear from the video on the nyt site that Kerry was attacking Bush. In fact, he looked pissed off while he was telling it. Kerry's response is very good too.

Hasn't Kerry learned the obvious lesson, which is that mentioning "Iraq" is only playing to the Republicans' strengths? When people hear the word IRAQ, they immediately think patriotic thoughts and want to vote for more Republican politicians. It's a law of nature. Why oh why did Kerry even say that word?

Get a grip people. And some bladder control. This is freaking embarassing.

Let me repeat Kerry's response, for those above complaining about him without reading it:

“If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they're crazy. This is the classic G.O.P. playbook. I’m sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did.

I’m not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox’s Parkinson’s disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq. It disgusts me that these Republican hacks, who have never worn the uniform of our country lie and distort so blatantly and carelessly about those who have.

The people who owe our troops an apology are George W. Bush and Dick Cheney who misled America into war and have given us a Katrina foreign policy that has betrayed our ideals, killed and maimed our soldiers, and widened the terrorist threat instead of defeating it. These Republicans are afraid to debate veterans who live and breathe the concerns of our troops, not the empty slogans of an Administration that sent our brave troops to war without body armor.

Bottom line, these Republicans want to debate straw men because they’re afraid to debate real men. And this time it won’t work because we’re going to stay in their face with the truth and deny them even a sliver of light for their distortions. No Democrat will be bullied by an administration that has a cut and run policy in Afghanistan and a stand still and lose strategy in Iraq.”

On the "party of ideas" theme, one is increasingly reminded of that Woody Allen line about how he always comes up with his best ideas in the shower, but then his best ideas usually revolve around a Swedish airline stewardess and a pair of handcuffs.

goo guy:

f' off. virtually everyone in the Army or Marine Corps has served a tour in Iraq.

oh, and incredibly enough, virtually everyone outside of the Northeast and the West Coast actually knows someone who's been in Iraq.

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