Borat

Well, the vast majority of SBC's audience not being of the same level of wonk as you are, Matt, part of the reason is Kazhakstan sounds sufficiently foreign without being really recognizable that it generally works. For example, I myself am a graduate of an Ivy league university, currently a student at a top-10 law school, and am generally well informed, yet I certainly couldn't point to Kazhakstan on a map.

Since first catching Borat on Da Ali G Show, I figured that Cohen might've been playing on the similarity between the words Kazakh and Cossack, the Czarist horsemen who terrorized every single shtetl, at least according to my grandparents & great-grandparents.

Since Borat's anti-semitism (the Throw The Jew Down The Well segment on the TV show is one of the funniest things I've ever seen) is such a big part of his schtick, the Kazakh-Cossack link may be the key.

Incidentally, the opening scenes of Borat's hometown weren't filmed in a Slavic backwater, though it was the Balkans: Romania.

Yeah, Kazakhstan never made much sense because its actually one of the more developed 'Stans. Belarus would be good, but then you don't get the Muslim angle.

If I remember the numbers correctly, Kazahkistan is only a 37% Kazahk (a bunch of Kazahks live across the border in Russia, and also in Mongolia and China) and like maybe 30% of Kazahks are Russian (ditto).

Kazahkistan is a country with really the wrong borders. The CCCP was actually pretty good about putting a given ethnicity in a distinct SSR, but the country of Kazahistan is very differently shaped than the ethnic group of Kazahks.

m, oh, the imperialism

I thought Talladega Nights's send-up of Americana was, ultimately, superior just among films released in 2006.

Really? Cause Will Ferrell has never ever ever been Teh Funny. Evar.

My filmgoing is limited to the theater near here with $4.00 matinees. Idiocracy was a really funny sendup of America. Recommended. By me.

Incidentally I knew a Khazhakh (sorry too lazy to look up and check the spelling, but I know there are several "H"s), and she was pretty cool. I think the choice was 'cause it was a place that is not America, and therefore a blank slate to most Americans.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but it certainly seems, from reviews and previews, like the anger at the heart of this satire is the reflexive anti-semitism in so much of world. Especially the Muslim world. Kazakhstan fits the bill.

Creating a link between this unthinking, rural, Muslim anti-semitism and the more furtive anti-semitism in rural America is vicious, and funny.

But why Kazakhstan? The name is FUNNY! You can't say it without sounding like a cat hacking up a hairball. Only a site by and for us humorless wonks would fail to get it.

I didn't get the Kazahk angle either. I've met one person from there and they seemed pretty normal, very westernized.

Borat's whole schtick just seems mean, honestly. I can see why people from that country are so upset.

Turkmenistan would have been a much better choice. It's too obscure, though, and the name doesn't sound right.

I haven't seen the Borat movie, but I agree with Chad's broad point: the whole thing seems mean-spirited. There's something unfair about trading on the charity of the people being interviewed by putting them in awkward positions by your strange but explicable behavior. Add to that the weapon of editing, and it feels a like hunting over the Internet: creepy.

Isn't Borat just Martin/Ackroyd's "wild and crazy guys" with blue material?

When you deconstruct it, Kazahkstan is the ideal homeland for Borat. Borat is a mosaic of all kinds of ethnic slurs about various backward easterners: he's a little bit Russian, a little bit Cossack, a little bit South Slavic/Balkan, and a little bit Turkic. At first I thought the choice of Kazahkstan was just a random dart thrown at the map, in a "those countries out there are all the same" kind of way. Now I think Sacha Baron-Cohen knew exactly what he was doing, and exactly how many different notes he wanted to hit with his character. Just lampooning onestereotypical ethnicity has been already been done many times. Sacha, I think, wanted to raise the bar, and assemble multiple tropes and stereotypes into one over-the-top figure, an Ur-Slur. Kazahkstan, and only Kazahkstan, allowed him to attempt just that.

Re: Mike's comment,

Kazakh and cossack are related, etymologically. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakhs

he CCCP was actually pretty good about putting a given ethnicity in a distinct SSR, but the country of Kazahistan is very differently shaped than the ethnic group of Kazahks.

not in central asia. a lot of ethnologists pretty much argue that the russians (this includes pre-soviet era) invented the various turkich ethnicites. and there are nearly as many tajiks in uzbekistan as there are in tajikstan. also, just an FYI catherine the great and her regime were instrumental in sending out muslim missionaries amongst the kazakhs and kirghiz to make them more genuinely muslim. didn't really totally take (in contrast to the uzbeks, who have a convential urban muslim culture). borat says in the movie that they 'worship the hawk,' which is not too far off :)

p.s. wiki says that most of the non-english was romanian, but borat spoke hebrew and azamat spoke armenian.

uh, if you know anything about Turkmenistan, then you'd know it'd be the worst choice. a slavic spokesperson, i think not. plus its run like North Korea, not interested in the outside world, save maybe Russia to sell gas (or to get screwed by Russia as it turns out).

anyways, here's the CIA World Factbooks dealy on Kazakhstan
Ethnic groups:
Kazakh (Qazaq) 53.4%, Russian 30%, Ukrainian 3.7%, Uzbek 2.5%, German 2.4%, Tatar 1.7%, Uygur 1.4%, other 4.9% (1999 census)

Religions:
Muslim 47%, Russian Orthodox 44%, Protestant 2%, other 7%

p.s. by 'invented,' i meant that groups like kazakhs and kirghiz have/had strong tribal identities, not strong 'national' ones. and since turkish nearly intelligible from xinjiang to turkey drawing lines can be arbitrary....

re: numbers, there's been intermarriage. though there tends to be assimilation toward a kazakh identity for mixed offspring, and yet, the truth is also that many kazakhs can't speak kazakh turkish and that the language is a 'kitchen' dialect (modern stuff was addressed in russian before independence). and the religion numbers are just extrapolated from ethnicity. kazakhs are not muslim the way uzbeks are muslim. one might also note that central asians are not as nuttily muslim, on average, as most muslims. tajikstan is a big booster of zoroaster (and ethnic persian from the borderlands).

i agree with razib, max. Central Asia's borders were drawn for the purpose of breaking down any would-be ethno-nationalism that might arise as a counterweight to Soviet rule. this means making sure the ethnic majority in any central asian SSR was diluted. this is true for Kazahstan too since there was a large ethnic Russian population there. in the others its even more clear, its why the borders are so outrageous (see the Fergana valley region in particular). I recall historically Tajik cities of Samarkand and Bukhara were purposely drawn into Uzbekistan for the reason. that really was the whole point of it. but youre right about the imperialism. this is part of what made in successful for so long.

The Khazaks (also Kazaks) briefly had a nuclear ICBMs after the breakup of the USSR. I bet they wish they kept them now.

The USSR tried more to break up groups than to unite them, but they were interspersed anyway so no solution would have worked. There are a lot of shittier places than Khazakistan.

I didn't think the country was supposed to be representative of Slavs--merely a Turkic backwater. If he's supposed have some Turko-Slavic-Cossack-Balkan thing going, I think Gagauzia would be ideal. Of course, that's not a sovereign country.

But, he is not Muslim. He is Kazakh, he follow the Hawk.

right on the numbers razib, i was just responding to matt in that the choice of Kazakhstan for Cohen character wasn't too misplaced. i'm assuming he's pretending to be ethnic Russian, or he would be if he didnt actually research the country before picking it. just pointing out Kazakhs have got the slav goin on.

also re: epistemology: you need to be introduced to some good ole fashioned slavic anti-semitism, cuz i think thats what Borat is going for

"Borat" is a 21st Century version of the Polish Joke.

Kazakhstan doesn't need nukes, they've got oil. lots of it. The Tenghiz oil field is one of the largest finds in the last 30 years (i think the largest if im not mistaken, dont quote me). The Kashagan field is even bigger but the oil is much less accessible, at current prices anyway. so give that one time. its projected to be one of the largest oil producers in the world.

Also, I know this is sort of part of the joke, but I'm not really sure why SBC made Borat from Kazakhstan. The country being satirized seems to be a Slavic backwater -- someplace like Belarus or just rural Russia -- rather than Muslim, Turkic-speaking Kazakhstan.

Well, if he had retained the originally Slavic background of the Borat character, how could he then have exploited contemporary Western Muslim-hatred, as he has so successfully done? The point was not just to use a country that is exotically distant, but one that is vaguely associated in the minds of his audience with a variety of Muslim stereotypes: misogyny and patriarchy, antisemitism, warlordism, lechery backwardness and cruelty. His target audience is people who enjoy indulging simultaneously their conviction of superiority over Western antisemites and bigots, and their contempt and hatred of Muslims.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but it certainly seems, from reviews and previews, like the anger at the heart of this satire is the reflexive anti-semitism in so much of world. Especially the Muslim world. Kazakhstan fits the bill.

This is subject on my part, but my sense is that the anti-semitism SBC is portraying is much more grounded in Tales of the Old Country relating to Slavic Eastern Europe than to things in the contemporary Muslim world.

Slate has an article, The Real Kazakhstan: What does Borat get right and wrong about his native land?. According to this and other articles I've read anti-semitism isn't real big there, and this is apparently one reason people there are pissed about the movie.

Borat has to be understood as a river fed by many streams. One aspect is a "revenge of the shtetl" phenomenon (lampooning the anti-semitism of the Slavic world). Another influence is the tradition of poking fun at Eastern Europeans like Sailer's reference to Polish jokes, or Balki Bartokamous from Perfect Strangers, or Andy Kaufman's Latka, or the "Wild and Crazy Guys". Then there's the fact that Borat comes across as sort of crypto-Muslim (Central Asian + mustache = crypto-Muslim) which is the new twist on the character. Finally, I think there's a little-England, wogs-begin-at-Calais undercurrent where it's just good times to portray caricatures like this for laughs. (I think Borat is hilarious, personally.) But what it comes down to is that Borat's a creepier, hornier, Jew-hating Balki with a mustache, from further east.

Kazakhstan was not the target of Borat's satire, just collateral damage. The depiction of Kazakhstan and its inhabitants was so cartoonish that there was not enough truth in jest to call it satire, and it's hard to imagine what kind of person would actually think worse of Kazakhstan for having seen the movie, other than the kinds of people who are the targets of Borat's satire, American rednecks.

This was one of the funniest movies I've ever seen. Also one of the most disturbing - in a class with Pink Flamingos.

The country being satirized seems to be a Slavic backwater -- someplace like Belarus or just rural Russia -- rather than Muslim, Turkic-speaking Kazakhstan.

Sounds like something written by an Uzbek nitwit with a bone in his head. (sorry)

Russian is the official language of Kazahkstan - making it, in many ways, the very model of a Slavic backwater (via imperialism, both cultural and political) - for a sizeable percentage of the country, anyway.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5487.htm

Language: Kazakhstan is a bilingual country. Kazakh language has the status of the "state" language, while Russian is declared the "official" language. Russian is used routinely in business; 64.4% of population speaks the Kazakh language.

The "Blair Witch" moment at the Bed and Breakfast - too funny. Poor Kazahkstan.

Er, it's interesting, they're onto the "all publicity is good publicity" thingie. From Editor & Publisher, Nov. 4:

....Erlan Idrissov, the country's ambassador to Great Britain, now says that although the film "gross misrepresented" his country it also put it "on the map." He added this classic: "Having survived Stalin we will certainly survive Borat."....

...But he did concede that the film had "resulted in the kind of media attention of which previously I could only dream...In a sense he has placed Kazakhstan on the map - no mean achievement since, even though it is the size of Western Europe, most people in the English-speaking world have difficulty in spelling its name and have only a vague idea of where it is."....

No outrage = they are savvy or learn fast.

I am thinking he picked it because of the "nepotism & nationalism" meme, it's much easier to pick on a country with new money, the equivalent of bourgeoisie is always good for laughs, wherever you can find it. The truly poor, truly downtrodden or truly dumb are not fertile ground. (Come to think of it, is not Ali G. the same as an oafish bourgeois burgher of old?)

Steve Sailer gets it exactly wrong, but considering that he's a racist nutcase, I'm not very surprised that his understanding of teh funny is so poor.

It's very simple. Kazakstan is very big, very far away, sparsely populated, and has very few immigrants living in the USA or most European countries. Put together, these attributes ensure that 99.9% of SBC's targets have no clue about anything Kazakstan-related, so SBC is free to make up whatever he wants about the culture.

The country's size on the map also helps in the very rare cases when SBC encounters someone who's minimally geographically literate. If Borat were from Azerbaijan or Kyrgyzstan it would almost be less believable - those countries are physically tiny and so are almost too stereotypical in the way they appear to be backwaters. Kazakstan by contrast is freakin' huge, so people who know this are perhaps slightly embarrassed that they know nothing of this large and seemingly important place, and this embarrassment wipes out any skepticism they might have about the bit.

Matthew Yglesias:

This is subject on my part, but my sense is that the anti-semitism SBC is portraying is much more grounded in Tales of the Old Country relating to Slavic Eastern Europe than to things in the contemporary Muslim world.

Though chastened by your superior knowledge of the nosology of anti-semitism (anti-Semitism?) I defiantly defend my guess that the country Kazakhstan was chosen as much for the comedic sound of it as it obscurity.

What is the evidence for 'furtive anti-semitism in rural America'?

Is it okay to be disappointed by a comedy that, at the end of the day, is genuinely very funny? Expectations for this were sky-high and even though it was good, I feel they weren't meant. This was definitely a movie worth seeing, but not a timeless comedy classic.

Had a somewhat similar experience tonight with a different movie. Saw Volver, which, although quite good, didn't meet the sky-high expectations that come with a new Almadovar film. It was the first time I thought Penelope Cruz was a real actress, though.

"Borat" is a 21st Century version of the Polish Joke."

Especially since Cohen (as Borat, at least the little I've seen) tends to use Polish expressions like 'jak się masz?' (how are you?) and dziękuję (thank you) rather than Kazakh or Russian (still the dominant language there I think).

I find Cohen a one-note performer who becomes tiresome quickly. Almost all of his humor is the 'make faces at a blind person' variety: Ali G or Borat acts boorish to people who aren't in on the joke and he (and the audience by extension) gets to laugh at them no matter their reaction. What's next? Setting cats on fire?

As for "furtive anti-semitism in rural America," I don't think there is much in reality, but I assume epistemology was referring to incidents like "Throw the Jew Down the Well" and the gun dealer who apparently (I haven't seen the movie) responds cooperatively when asked what the best weapon for killing a Jew is.
I was surprised to learn from the Slate article that Kazakhstan has diplomatic relations with Israel. Is that common among Central Asian Muslim nations?
I think the reason Borat chose a Central Asian republic is that that way he can draw on two different traditions of anti-Semitism: the Slavic AND the Muslim. A place like Belarus on the one hand or Qatar on the other would only draw on one tradition. Central Asia is the best of both worlds! I agree with transplant (despite his unwarranted slur toward Steve Sailer) that Kazakhstan's semi-reccognizability is part of the reason it was chosen over the other Central Asian republics. People would think Turkmenistan was near Turkey, and while Uzbekistan actually has a funnier-sounding name in my opinion (and a stronger Muslim fundamentalist movement), it simply doesn't have the vaguely familiar sound that I think Kazakhstan has even among the semi-educated. Ditto Tajikistan and Kyrgystan.

I was surprised to learn from the Slate article that Kazakhstan has diplomatic relations with Israel. Is that common among Central Asian Muslim nations?

Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan have embassies in Israel.

Turkmenistan and Kyrgyzstan have diplomatic relations with Isael through their respective embassies in Turkey.

Tajikistan has no diplomatic relations.

All things considered, not a terribly bad "-stan" to "diplomatic relations" embassy for the little Satan.

"Unwarranted," James? Reading Sailer's writings on the Katrina aftermath, in which he blames the looting on black people's dearth of "native judgment," is warrant enough for me without having to read all the Charles Murray chram-stroking, thank you very much.

....are you serious? The whole point is to send up how ignorant Brits and Americans are. The mishmash of his Polish expressions, exaggerated Hebrew, and other thing are just to point out how if you actually now anything about any of his tricks you realize that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Anecdote: I went to high school with a guy from Khazakstan (one of the funniest bastards I ever did know) and when we referred to him as being from Khazakstan, he would always remind us "I am Russian! God dammit!" just so we wouldn't call him a Khazakh.

If you're arguing about the details of what country Borat should really be from you missed the whole point of the movie.

Matthew Y:

I think you're right to speculate about Borat's origin (He speaks Polish, by the way, as someone up above commented: "Jagshemash" is "Jak sie masz?" and "Jenguye" is "Dziekuje"). He's also a mishmash of stereotypes, as the same person up above commented.

That said, I think it's a valid question. I'll preface this by stating that I think the comedian is screamingly, incapacitatingly funny, but there's no getting around the fact that he's viciously slandered Kazakhstan, whether the country resembles Borat or not. If you were in the Kazakh embassy you would have to protest it.

Why did he choose Kazakhstan? I think that for the purposes of access he had to represent a real country, and are few Kazakh-British or Kazakh-Americans to take offense. Thirty years ago, when there was still an Iron Curtain, he might have made Borat Czechoslovakian, a la Steve Martin and Dan Ackroyd.

Wow, I never read Borat as any sort of Muslim. What parts of the movie pointed people in that direction?

Borat is the Jewish Tom Green. Both mined the humour value of making fun of unsuspecting 'simpletons' to make us chuckle. But Tom is a better human being that Sasha Baron-Cohen -- he mostly picked on his own parents.

From the media coverage, I expected something along the lines of Steve Martin's wild and crazy Czech brothers. I expected political incorrectness about backward central Asian countries. Surprise Surprise! It's a satire of US mores.

No one seems to be discussing that, however. The discussions seems to center around the movie's "political incorrectness," a code word for speaking frowned-upon conservative values. But this implies that the reviewers (and the audiences) agree with the "politically incorrect" statements made in the movie about women, Jews and gay people. Which, of course, makes the movie's point: the U.S. is the cultural equivalent of a backwards nation.

In the world today, it is not Kazhakstan strutting like the
cock-of-the-walk on the world stage, boasting of its dominance, but the "US and A." The movie isn't showing Kazhakstan when noting that US people have no sense of humor about their own foibles. It's not Kazak frat boys bragging about how women are unworthy of respect and useful only for casual sex. It's not Kazhakstan where crowds cheer to hear about killing every last Iraqi man, woman and child. It's not
Kazhakstan where people talk enthusiastically about imprisoning and killing gay people. Personally, in my area of research on transgender workplace issues, which is sufficiently under the radar not to be seen as an issue of political correctness, I've regularly heard people here
in the US saying that transgenders are mentally ill sexual deviants with criminal tendencies. I have few illusions about what people are really thinking about me as a transgender person.

So why hasn't the discussion about the movie centered on US mores, rather than that of the "silly" Kazakis, so lacking in humor as to take out ads in the New York Times to proclaim their modernity and to threaten the movie's creator with lawsuits and murder, solidifying the charge against them? What about the US, where the movie's creator has been the subject of numerous arrest warrants for filming the movie?

Talking about queer theory, my guess is that heteronormative thinkers can't conceive of anything being more wonderful than their own identities, in this case, that of jingoistic xenophobic misogynistic heterosexuals. I don't think most of us in the US are educated enough about other perspectives to get the joke, even when it is explained to us.

I believe the actual Tom Green is also Jewish.

James Kabala wrote:

I believe the actual Tom Green is also Jewish.

Ottawa's own Micheal Thomas Green? Mom Mary-Jane, dad Richard? Nope.

Just a point of clarification...in the movie, concerning religion, Borat says he "follows the Eagle" or something. There are no references to Islam even thought there are opportunities to do so.

You are all overthinking this. Most of the people mocked in the film deserve to be mocked. Especially Bob Barr.

fuck shit u dirty ass hos

In the world today, it is not Kazhakstan strutting like the
cock-of-the-walk on the world stage, boasting of its dominance, but the "US and A." The movie isn't showing Kazhakstan when noting that US people have no sense of humor about their own foibles. It's not Kazak frat boys bragging about how women are unworthy of respect and useful only for casual sex. It's not Kazhakstan where crowds cheer to hear about killing every last Iraqi man, woman and child. It's not
Kazhakstan where people talk enthusiastically about imprisoning and killing gay people. Personally, in my area of research on transgender workplace issues, which is sufficiently under the radar not to be seen as an issue of political correctness, I've regularly heard people here
in the US saying that transgenders are mentally ill sexual deviants with criminal tendencies. I have few illusions about what people are really thinking about me as a transgender person.

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