Hoyer Versus Murtha: A Quantitative Perspective

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I prefer Murtha because a) I think on one particular issue, Iraq, he would more effective than Hoyer, and 2) anything that weakens Rahm gladdens my heart.

Martha had some earmark swap mett going too. Before Pelosi endorsed him there wasn't necessarily any reason to strongly prefer Murtha, but now there is. A big gamble by her.

But really ,even before this, Murtha was Pelosi's ally, and I'm guessing he wasn't someone who'd eventually become speaker, Hoyer might.

Aside from ideology and personal ties, too, there's something like procedural style, degree of corruption (if any) and so on. Neither looks super-attractive to me in that regard, but I will say that a pal of mine who worked on the Hill for a while said they referred to Hoyer as a snake-oil salesman. And that wasn't personal. Plus Hoyer plagiarized, stole, resubmitted under a different number and claimed credit for the bill that my pal had had a hand in writing.

According to Progressive Punch, which tracks all votes from multiple sessions for Senators and Congresscritters.

Steny Hoyer has a Progressive rating of 82.97 (out of 100) making him the 125th most liberal congressperson and more liberal than 77 other House Dems. He is strongest on Family Planning & Health Care issues (96.3 & 95) and weakest on Housing(bank forclosure) and War & Peace issues (62.5 & 67.2).

John Murtha has a Progressive rating of 66.61 (out of 100) making him the 187th most liberal congresperson and more liberal than 15 other House Dems. He is strongest on Labor & Taxation issues (82.6 & 76.1) and weakest on Family Planning and, oddly, enough, War & Peace issues (Pro Military+Defense Pork) (15.3 & 44.7 respectively)

It should also be noted that on the issues that Murtha is strongest on, he is still less progressive than Hoyer (82.6 to 85.1 on Labor) (76.1 to 91.4 on Taxes) and on the issues Hoyer is weakest on, he is still more progressive than Murtha (62.5 to 50 on Housing) (67.2 to to 44.7 on War & Defense)

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For anyone interested, the notorious Rahm Emanuel has a Progressive rating of 87.73 (out of 100) making him the 72nd most liberal Congressperson and more liberal than 130 other House Dems. And "raging liberal by pretty much any standard" has a Progressive rating of 89.85, making her the 50th most liberal Congressperson and more liberal than 152 other House Dems.

"For anyone interested, the notorious Rahm Emanuel has a Progressive rating of 87.73 (out of 100) making him the 72nd most liberal Congressperson and more liberal than 130 other House Dems."

Shhhh....

Rahm fought with Howard during the campaign, and thus is a very, very, very bad man. We all know ideology doesn't matter in politics, don't we?

Hoyer is certainly more of the smooth, well-spoken, back-slapping pol one imagines as a majority leader. However, on the crucial issue of Iraq, electing Hoyer sends entirely the wrong message.

Hoyer represents the "stay in Iraq with a reworked Democratic plan and win" approach while Murtha represents the "time to start getting out" position. It strikes me that Murtha's position is now closest to the position of the majority of Americans, and is certainly closer to the position of the majority of Democrats. Hoyer is in step with Washington lobbyists, but out of step with ordianry Americans.

My guess is that most of the Democrats who displaced Republicans ran on something resembling Mutha's position. Getting us out of Iraq is what the public sent Democrats to Washington to do. If they choose Hoyer as their leader, Americans will respond with a collective "Wha? We replace the Republican Congress with a Democratic one, based mainly on our feelings about the war issue, and then the Democrats pick a guy from the hawkish wing of the party whose position on Iraq is barely discernable from that of the Republicans they replaced?"

I wish some alternative candidate would emerge: one with Murtha's position on the war, but otherwise more on line politically with the Democratic mainstream, and a better speaker. But if it comes down to Murtha vs. Hoyer, I go with Murtha.

Rahm fought with Howard during the campaign, and thus is a very, very, very bad man. We all know ideology doesn't matter in politics, don't we?

I think people are tossing around the term "ideology" carelessly, as if the term were synonymous with "dogma." Rahm's ideology has many liberal components, but also includes a bad-man's corporatist streak. The corporatism/pragmatism is NOT non-ideological, just because it's the part of his ideology that concerns winning elections.

"For example, the candidate for Whip associated with Hoyer and Rahm Emanuel..."

I previously called you a moron on this, Matthew, but now I wonder if you're not a moron, but simply writing in bad faith.

Rahm is clearly aligned with Pelosi, not Hoyer. Pelosi clearly sees Rahm as aligned with her, not Hoyer. Pick up your telephone and do some reporting, if you don't believe me.

There are lots of folks in the blogosphere writing on this topic in intentionally bad faith, and I've been assuming you aren't one of them, since I assume you're almost never writing in intentionally bad faith.

But I am pretty confused as to your motivations in continually repeating something so clearly false.

Well Rahm deserves some criticism on certain issues, he was clearly right about certain things and instrumental in the big victory. But was clearly wrong about many things as well, and a lot of internet activists, who deserve a huge share of the credit for our win, are justified in balking at the prospect that Rahm is a genius who deserves all of the credit (rather than a strong tactician who deserves some of the credit)

But I agree with you that Rahm is not a very very bad man, simply because he disagrees with Howard Dean sometimes. I'm really beginning to get chafed at this distrubing cult of personality surrounding Dean, where in anyone who dares criticize the great Chairman is deemed an enemy of the people and to be crushed.

How can you be certain of someone's ideology based only the way they voted?

For example:
If a politician supports universal health care for children, but votes against a universal health care bill because it is poorly written, not well funded, not far reaching enough, or otherwise flawed, would that politician thus become more conservative?

Because Hacker's claims about "backlash insurance" notwithstanding, there's no way that a Member's votes reflect anything but his fondest heart's policy desires in the most naive sense.

But I agree with you that Rahm is not a very very bad man, simply because he disagrees with Howard Dean sometimes.

No, he's a bad man because he's your standard machine politician, and he happens to be allied with the particularly pernicious DLC machine. Some people liked Tammany Hall, I guess.

SCMT, Machine Politician? Tammany Hall? DLC Machine? give me a fricken break. Get back when youre serious and on planet Earth.

"I previously call you a moron on this, Matthew, but now I wonder if you not moron, but simply write in bad faith."

Go to your room Cha-Ka.

Dan Kervick nails it. Iraq is the issue right now. One's willingness to take a clear stand on Iraq also indicates a lot about future stands on U.S. imperialism. The political tectonic plates are in the course of shifting a bit, and past definitions of liberal and conservative may become less relevant.

But I worry about Murtha's willingness to stand up to the military on spending issues. Defense spending has probably doubled since 2000, it's out of control.

The case against Emanuel (at least as far as I'm concerned) isn't that he's corrupt. I'll also grant that he's one heck of a fundraiser, and that his general persistence helps him get a lot done. The big problem, as I see it, is that he's a mediocre race picker. I'd like to reference something I wrote 10 days before the election:

"I really don't know about any strikingly clever moves he's pulled as DCCC chair. If he heavily funds a handful of third-tier races and they turn out to be winners, or if he doesn't and we lose them by a mile while winning the House off of top-tier races, my opinion will change."

What ended up happening? Well, unless recounts shake things up, we lost 14 out of 23 races that were decided by 2 points or less. The losses included cheap races (Kissell, Trauner, Wulsin), bunches of which could be won for the money that Rahm spent on a single one of his losers. I suppose John Lapp, who runs independent expenditures for the DCCC, is the real guy to blame here, but I blame Rahm too for hiring the moron.

Given the choice between Dean's long-term party-building and John Lapp's dumping bundles of money on a few battleground races while ignoring others, I'll take Dean's way.

I think you are drawing a false distinction here. The "50 state strategy" is about "long term party building" at the state & county level, centralizing the party & reinvigorating it rather than blowing DNC money on congressional races. The primary feud between Dean & Rahm was over Rahm's wanting that money for the election cycle while Dean wanted it to build up state parties. "dumping bundles of money on a few battleground races while ignoring others" isn't even related to that, as the DNC wasn't putting up money for the election cycle, other than for GOTV to begin with, much less targeting their funds to specific battleground races.

Dustin, the DCCC's way of expending funds in an election cycle is by dumping bundles of money on a few battleground races while ignoring others. That's why that issue is relevant to comparisons between what Rahm does with money and what Dean does with money.

Personally, I'd rather have Dean spend some of his money on helping underfunded but competitive candidates like Trauner and Kissell and Wulsin. (Though he did a lot to help Trauner by funding the Wyoming state party, so that was pretty good. And by funding the Nebraska party, he may have bled the NRCC when they had to throw money at Kleeb.) But I'd rather do local party building, like Dean did, than saturate the airwaves in a small number of battleground districts, which is what Rahm and Lapp do. Hence my disdain for Rahm, and my relative regard for Dean.

Hoyer will back rahm and the rest of the establishment. There's no point in pretending this is a choice. Mo matter how liberal hoyer is, he's part of the problem and not part of the solution.
I don't take Rahm that seriously. He lacks the personal skills needed to manage large groups of people effectively. All of this chatter is just good feelings over the elections. Rahm will be back to insulting everyone an inch to his right or left, and pissing in everyones cornflakes in no time. I doubt we'll be talking about this guy in 6 months, not on a national level.
It should be noted that while I don't know if Rahm is personally corrupt, he's the sort of person who corrupts very easily. He's petty, vindictive, cruel and has a massive sense of entitlement. In my experience, those are the people who can't be relied upon for sterling ethics. If he ever gets a leadership position, I'm leaving the party. Guys like that don't win leadership by convincing others of their ability, they do so by stabbing others in the back.

and I'm guessing he wasn't someone who'd eventually become speaker

Exactly. Everyone who's so busy pointing out how conservative Murtha is doesn't realize how irrelevant that is. We seem to have forgotten that the Speaker is supposed to be the agenda-setter in the House, after years of Delay using Hastert as his sock puppet. Ms. Pelosi wants someone in the second-highest slot who is loyal to her, rather than someone looking to undercut her and usurp her position. As noted above, it is extremely unlikely that Mr. Murtha will ever become Speaker; Ms. Pelosi presumably wants to keep the job as long as possible, and if circumstances render that impossible, it's an open field. In the meantime, Ms. Pelosi indicates her respect for the wishes of the electorate by picking an Iraq redeployment advocate, has a conservative Marine as her right-hand man to blunt the "San Francisco liberal" attacks, and gets to introduce a progressive agenda anyway, since she is the boss.

Except that putting someone whom CREW views as one of the most corrupt Congressmen up as Majority Leader sends a bad message about the seriousness with which the Democrats will reform Congress. I suppose I could be fine with Murtha's 0% from NARAL, but seriously, while he's right on Iraq, he's a horrific abuser of earmarks. This is payback from Pelosi for a longtime supporter of hers, but it's just a terrible move because it blunts the distinction between Republican corruption and our new Pelosi-led sugar miners.

"Dustin, the DCCC's way of expending funds in an election cycle is by dumping bundles of money on a few battleground races while ignoring others. That's why that issue is relevant to comparisons between what Rahm does with money and what Dean does with money."

Except that Dean isn't doing anything in the races with his money, ergo no distinction to be made. He's not contributing directly to the candidates races. No doubt putting money in the State parties has indirect benefits for the candidates, but they rely on direct support. That's why we have a DCCC and a DSCC.

As for The DCCC's success or failure. I'm not sure what you want them to do. If some races that weren't paid much attention to by the DCCC ended up close. That's just a case for smarter and targeting, not an argument against targeting in itself. Are you saying the DCCC should have given the same money, attention & resources to every congresscritter running? So John Morris, who got 31% of the vote against Kay Granger, gets the same support as Patrick Murphy? Until you propose an alternative model, I can only count your indictment by half.

"Personally, I'd rather have Dean spend some of his money on helping underfunded but competitive candidates like Trauner and Kissell and Wulsin. (Though he did a lot to help Trauner by funding the Wyoming state party, so that was pretty good. And by funding the Nebraska party, he may have bled the NRCC when they had to throw money at Kleeb.)"

Fine, I'll agree with you. Except Dean didn't fund any candidates, underfunded or otherwise. He gave the DCCC, DSCC & state parties a bunch of millions for GOTV in the last month (which helped) but he didn't fund any candidate himself. It doesen't really make sense to pooh-pooh one stragey as opposed to another that, in fact, never even existed.

A British soldier in Iraq pretty much said it all: "They just want to pull us out so they can send us off to some other f--king war."

I'm inclined to be against anything Ed Kilgore is for, but when I thought of writing to my congressman, it occurred to me that they do a lot of stuff back there I don't know about. They're like children or pets, you can't watch them all the time, you just have to hope that the occasional swat with a rolled up newspaper will keep them generally on course.

That said, the DLC took control of the nominating process for the presidency in 76 and the results haven't been pretty. Time for a change in that department.

SCMT, Machine Politician? Tammany Hall? DLC Machine?

I'm not actually sure to what you're objecting. The wikipedia entry comports with my lay-understanding of a political machine:

A political machine is an unofficial system of political organization based on patronage, the spoils system, "behind-the-scenes" control, and longstanding political ties within the structure of a representative democracy.

Maybe it's the reference to Tammany Hall, with the implicit implication of specific corrupt acts? Fine, retracted. We've only just regained the majority; let's wait and see what happens with K Street.

Except that putting someone whom CREW views as one of the most corrupt Congressmen up as Majority Leader sends a bad message about the seriousness with which the Democrats will reform Congress.

Well, we're currently still stuck with Joe "Illegal $387,000 Slush Fund" Lieberman, and it never seemed to matter to anyone how many suitcases full of pharmaceutical lobbyist money ended up on his desk. And as far as Murtha's perceived corruption, remember that the other alternative is Hoyer. Do you think Hoyer voted for the bankruptcy bill because he was completely swept away by its merits? He was swept away by bags with dollar signs painted on them. And Emanuel was bragging before the election about how much of the old K Street lucre was flowing back to the Democrats. So any likely majority leader is going to have issues; the system itself is part of the problem, and is what needs to be fixed.

I suppose I could be fine with Murtha's 0% from NARAL

Good, because Speaker Pelosi will be setting the agenda. What's her NARAL rating? And if it's just about the message that such a pick would send to NARAL, well, fuck them and their endorsement for Joe "Rape Victims Can Just Go to Another Hospital, and I Voted for Cloture on Alito" Lieberman. (Yes, Joe does have a lot of different long, awkward middle names, doesn't he?)

And as far as Murtha's perceived corruption, remember that the other alternative is Hoyer. Do you think Hoyer voted for the bankruptcy bill because he was completely swept away by its merits?

The bankruptcy bill which Murtha also voted for. And yes, as I said, I could be fine with Murtha's 0% rating with NARAL -- as you noted, Pelosi will the agenda. But picking someone with some pretty boundary-pushing earmarking issues hanging over is a bad idea. Do you want to argue that CREW is somehow a tool of the Washington punditocracy here?

If Pelosi wanted to reward someone who was right on Iraq, there are people who are solid progressives whom she could have chosen, and Murtha certainly is not one. This is Pelosi paying back a long-time supporter, and I think it's a shit move because it can so easily be spun as the Democrats not being serious about reforming the abuses of the Republican congress if Murtha wins, and poisons her relationship with Hoyer if Murtha loses.

(I don't see how Lieberman comes into things at all, nor do I see how CREW was supposed to magically predict that he would hand out hundreds of thousands of dollars in street cash.)

That said, the DLC took control of the nominating process for the presidency in 76 and the results haven't been pretty. Time for a change in that department.

Wha? The DLC didn't even exist in 76. Let's try to be at least a little bit reasonable about what we blame folks for, eh?

That said, the DLC took control of the nominating process for the presidency in 76 and the results haven't been pretty. Time for a change in that department.

Flippantangel's point aside -- exactly how we blame the DLC for Michael Dukakis and John Kerry is beyond me. DLC-connected candidates seem to be 3 for 3 in the popular vote.

I don't see how Lieberman comes into things at all

It illustrates that corruption is endemic in Congress, and comes in more forms than just earmarks. Yes, it would be good to "pick" someone more progressive who is also free of taint. So, which senior members of Congress with an interest in the position fit the bill? Nothing's preventing them from throwing their hats into the ring, and I'd cheerfully support them.

The bankruptcy bill which Murtha also voted for.

Yeah? So, wrong on Iraq + wrong on bankruptcy bill is an improvement? We aren't looking at Murtha vs. Waxman at this point, we're looking at Murtha vs. Hoyer.

nor do I see how CREW was supposed to magically predict that he would hand out hundreds of thousands of dollars in street cash.

True, and at least they beat the drum loudly about it and rushed to file a state board of elections complaint when it came out before the general election. Or at least I'm sure they intended to, but then they remembered that Maxine Waters supported Lamont, and she's really corrupt, way beyond merely buying votes with an illegal slush fund.

I think that someone should look at the races in which Emanuel was involved and compare them to the races in which he was not involved. Duckworth and Wetterling were flops, and he threw a ton of money at Duckworth. And races in which he came in late with money and no advoce should be compared to races where he controlled strategy and tactics. He's been criticized for being too hands-on, I think rightly.

And then look at the original Emanuel strategy vs. the Dean strategy, which was followed to what extent, and how things turned out. If Emanuel actually was advocating "put all your energy into a few carefully-chosen key districts", as he's being accused, he really is a loser.

I am actually more openminded than usual in this particular case. Maybe Emanuel's performance was actually good, and we should split the difference. However, the messages out of the Emanuel camp so far are not conciliatory so far (unlike Kos's messages).

I think that Rahm performs the ATM function nicely and probably should be specialized to that purpose.

Okay, mds, you win -- CREW is in the pocket of David Broder and Tim Russert, as part of their plan to neuter the Democratic party.

Other can take a look at this piece on Murtha's fun and games with earmarks and decide if this is the guy you want as the second ranking Dem member of the House. Please note the examples in paragraphs four and five of him screwing fellow Democrats, including helping corner Democrats to block investigations into fraud on the part of military contractors in Iraq.

None of this, btw, detracts from my respect for Murtha for coming out so vocally about the need to get our troops out of harm's way in Iraq and eventually home. Having a conservative Democrat (and one perceived as firmly in the Pentagon's corner) make that case is the right thing to do.

I would prefer a liberal, non-corrupt majority leader, but who's ever cared what I thought? Between Murtha and Hoyer I prefer Murtha, mostly because he spoke out on the war, and secondarily because he seems less slimy than Hoyer. If Emanuel is supporting Murtha as someone above has suggested, that confuses the issue a bit. I guess reptiles aren't herd animals.

Doesn't Hoyer have this contest locked up anyways?

Doesn't Hoyer have this contest locked up anyways?

One hopes.

Wow, I knew Murtha had his own politiciany problems, but he seems even oilier than Hoyer. Hoyer's ties to business lobbyists are a problem but he's not implicated in any inpropriety that I've seen. Jack Murtha on the other hand, if Crowley's article at TNR is anything to go by, may be EVEN OILIER.

How is it that Hoyer has this "locked up" anyway. Nancy has endorsed Murtha, that has to count for something. Nancy is in the House Progressive Caucus, the largest faction of the House Democrats. That has to count for something right? Certainly they would heed her words & would support her over a business-friendly Democrat?

The TPM Cafe stuff changed my mind somewhat. Murthan is worse than I thought, and Hoyer has some pretty good endorsers.

Is anyone here concerned about Murtha's role in ABSCAM? He was caught on tape considering a $50,000 bribe. He didn't say yes, but he didn't exactly say no either. I was hoping the good guys could come up with some actual good guys for key positions.

Petey is such a fucking ass

Actually Murtha declined the 50K bribe and suggested the man invest in Johnstown PA. You Hoyer boys should get your talking points in order.

Murtha game out publically against the war and offered a plan while Hoyer was plotting his takeover of K Street.
One man is a leader the other is a dealer.

To paraphrase Skynyrd 'Pork for Johnstown does not bother me, does your conscience bother you?'

If Hoyer is elected, then we get an ambitious politico with an overly cautious view of "what works" in the political arena. His ambitions basically mean that he'll interpret things in terms of his long term agenda, which means that even if he had a decent history with Pelosi, which he does not, there would be friction between the two.

If Murtha is chosen, then we get a party and Pelosi loyalist who nevertheless takes principled stands on major issues of the day. Even if he were to fall on the other side of Pelosi on an issue, it's difficult to see him taking political potshots at her. It's clear that Murtha would be the best choice for the party.

Why is this even a debate?

Murtha's record reminds me of saying "keep friends close, and enemies closer". Pelosi would do well to keep him flattered and under tight control -- and give some earmarks for Johnstown too (and sorry, zip for Altoona!).

Murtha is also a strategically chosen champion for anti-war cause. Exactly because he is so rightwing, so old, so military, so crusty. If only at some fateful day in Fall 2002 Senate Democtats lined behing another old king of earmarks (or emperor), Sen. Byrd. (More details in my upcomming book "101 Uses of an old Buzzard".)

In response to the above poster about why this is a debate, I have to say that it's a debate because there's a real difference between the two candidates.. I don't know what sense criticizing politicians for "ambition" makes-- both Hoyer and Murtha (and Pelosi!) are ambitious: they wouldn't have gotten where they are if they didn't work darn hard to get there.

In terms of Hoyer's history with Pelosi, he's been working with her for four years as Whip, and the Democrats are as united as they've been in 50 years. Do I give Pelosi credit? Absolutely! And I give Hoyer credit, too. Despite the fact that they don't always seem to get along, they work well together. And that's more important to me.

The reason I like Hoyer is that he's better on core Democratic values. He sponsored legislation to increase the minimum wage, is solidly pro-choice, believes in developing alternative energy, protecting the environment, supporting common-sense gun legislation (Brady Bill).

Murtha is none of the above (anti-choice, wants to drill in ANWR), and opposed the Brady bill. He's got an "A" lifetime rating from the NRA.. Do you want him to lead the House Democrats... or the Republicans?

Murtha is a right-winger. Ethics? THIS was just in Roll Call today:
Murtha Calls Ethics Bill ‘Total Crap’
Wednesday, Nov. 15; 1:14 pm
By John Bresnahan,
Roll Call Staff

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) told a group of Democratic moderates on Tuesday that an ethics and lobbying reform bill being pushed by party leaders was “total crap,” but said that he would work to enact the legislation because Speaker-to-be Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) supports it.

Murtha and Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) are locked in a battle for the House Majority Leader post, and both men made presentations for to the Blue Dog Coalition on Tuesday in a bid for their votes.

“Even though I think it’s total crap, I’ll vote for it and pass it because that’s what Nancy wants,” Murtha told the Blue Dogs, according to three sources who were at the meeting.

Pelosi has made enactment of the Honest Leadership and Open Government Act the cornerstone of her legislative agenda for the 110th Congress, and she is preparing to make it the first bill introduced under her reign. Murtha voted against the legislation earlier this year on the House floor.

Congressional corruption was a major issue for voters in the recent midterm elections, and Pelosi has pledged to clean-up the Congress as part of her efforts to reform the House.

A Democratic lawmaker, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said he was “surprised” by the tone of Murtha’s comments, especially Murtha’s repeated claim that he would back any proposal that Pelosi favored. This lawmaker has already declared for Hoyer.

“‘My agenda will be Nancy’s agenda’ — he kept saying that,” the lawmaker said. “The performance was stunningly awful.”

Another Democrat who was in the room said Murtha’s remarks, especially on the ethics and lobbying reform bill, “were not the right thing to say in front of a roomful of Blue Dogs.”

Murtha office’s did not comment for for this article.

According to Progressive Punch, which tracks all votes from multiple sessions for Senators and Congresscritters.

Steny Hoyer has a Progressive rating of 82.97 (out of 100) making him the 125th most liberal congressperson and more liberal than 77 other House Dems. He is strongest on Family Planning & Health Care issues (96.3 & 95) and weakest on Housing(bank forclosure) and War & Peace issues (62.5 & 67.2).

John Murtha has a Progressive rating of 66.61 (out of 100) making him the 187th most liberal congresperson and more liberal than 15 other House Dems. He is strongest on Labor & Taxation issues (82.6 & 76.1) and weakest on Family Planning and, oddly, enough, War & Peace issues (Pro Military+Defense Pork) (15.3 & 44.7 respectively)

It should also be noted that on the issues that Murtha is strongest on, he is still less progressive than Hoyer (82.6 to 85.1 on Labor) (76.1 to 91.4 on Taxes) and on the issues Hoyer is weakest on, he is still more progressive than Murtha (62.5 to 50 on Housing) (67.2 to to 44.7 on War & Defense)

Aside from ideology and personal ties, too, there's something like procedural style, degree of corruption (if any) and so on. Neither looks super-attractive to me in that regard, but I will say that a pal of mine who worked on the Hill for a while said they referred to Hoyer as a snake-oil salesman. And that wasn't personal. Plus Hoyer plagiarized, stole, resubmitted under a different number and claimed credit for the bill that my pal had had a hand in writing.

Pelosi has made enactment of the Honest Leadership and Open Government Act the cornerstone of her legislative agenda for the 110th Congress, and she is preparing to make it the first bill introduced under her reign. Murtha voted against the legislation earlier this year on the House floor.

Well Rahm deserves some criticism on certain issues, he was clearly right about certain things and instrumental in the big victory. But was clearly wrong about many things as well, and a lot of internet activists, who deserve a huge share of the credit for our win, are justified in balking at the prospect that Rahm is a genius who deserves all of the credit (rather than a strong tactician who deserves some of the credit)

But I agree with you that Rahm is not a very very bad man, simply because he disagrees with Howard Dean sometimes. I'm really beginning to get chafed at this distrubing cult of personality surrounding Dean, where in anyone who dares criticize the great Chairman is deemed an enemy of the people and to be crushed.

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bayram_kandil_hazir_cep_mesajlari2

bayram_kartlari

bayram_mesajlari

bayram_slaytlari

bayramin_kutlu_olsun

bebek_resimleri

bedava

bedava_bedavalar

bedava_cep_melodileri_oyunlari

bedava_email

bedava_mp3_yukle

bedava_oyun

bedava_resimli_mesaj
 
Bedava_melodi_bedava_sms__wap_melodi_cep_melodi_polifonik_melodi_turkcell_melodi_nokia_melodi_logo_cep

bedava_site_bedava_siteler

bedava_sms

bedava_web_sitesi

bedava-melodi

Bedava_melodi_bedava_sms__wap_melodi_cep_melodi_polifonik_melodi_turkcell_melodi_nokia_melodi_logo_cep1

Bedava-Sms

Bedava-ziyaretci-Defteri

begen_begenme_begenenler_begendim_begendiklerim

belediye_hizmetleri

Ben_sana_olurum_sarisinim

bergama_belediye_spor

berksan_ben_hic_unutmadim_unutamam

Berna_Ozturk

besiktas_bjk_mesajlari

beyaz_esya

beyazesya_beyazesyalar

bilet

bilet_biletler

bilgin-egitim-teknolojileri

bilgisayar

bilgisayar_computer

bilgisayar_pc_pcler

bilgisayarda_ses

bir_demet_tiyatro

bir_istanbul_masali

bir_prens_araniyor

bir-istanbul-masali

biten_iliskiler

bitki_bitkiler

bocekler

bocekler_bocek

bolge_bolgeler

bolgeler

borsa

borsa_borsalar

borsa_imkb

britney_spears_erotik

Britney-Spears

bu_sabahlarin_bir_anlami_olmali_mp3

burc_ask_sevgi

burc_burclar

burc-burclar

burclarin_kotu_yonleri

burcu_gunes_mp3_yukle

bu-sabahlarin-bi anlami-olmali-mp3-yukle

buyu_buyuler

buyuculuk

cagla_sikel_resimleri

cakir_kurtlarvadisi

camdan_papuclar

Cameron_Diaz

cankan_yar_yar_sarki_sozleri

cankiri_meslek_yuksek_okulu

canli_skorlar

canli-istek-hatti

capkinlik_kacamaklar

casino

casino_kasinolar

Catherine_Zeta_Jones

cd_cogaltma

cdkey_serial_no

cdler

cdler_cd

cekici_olmak

cem_yilmaz

cem_yilmaz_yeni_reklam_filmi

cep_melodi

cep_siirleri

cep_telefonlari

cep_telefonlari_cep_telefonu

cep_telefonu_icin_wavlar

cep-melodi

cep-telefon

cep-telefonu

ceza_fan_club

cgi_scriptler

chat_odalari

chat_sesli_chat

chat_sohbet

christina_aguilera

cicek_cicekler

Cindy_crawford

cine5_sifre_kirici_yeni

cine5_sifreleri

cinsellik

cinsellik_ask

cinsel-sapkinliklar-travestizm

ciplak_kizlar

ciplak_unluler_foto

citir_kizlar

claudia_schiffer

cnn-turk

cocuklar_cocuklar_icin

cok-komik

cok-ozel-resimler

corn_pictures

counter_strike

crack_cdkey

cs_1_6_full_download

cv_ornekleri

define-madenler

deniz_denizler

deniz_seki

deprem_kandilli

dergi_dergiler

ders_notlari

dershane_dersler

dijital_yayin

dijital-tv-sifreleri

dijiturk_canli_yayin

dilek_dilekler

dini_ekartlar

disk_diskler



diyarbakir_bilim_tip

dizi_diziler

dizi_muzikleri

dizi-muzikleri

dogum_gunu

dogum_gunu_davetiyeler

dogum_gunu_hazir_cep_mesajlari

dogum_gunu_kutlama_mesajlari

dokuzuncu-hariciye-kogusu

donem_odevi

donem-odevi

dost_dostluk

dostluk_hazir_cep_mesajlari

dosya_dosya_paylasimi

doviz_dovuz_kurlari

dowland-murat-kekilli

download

download-fza

duvar_kagitlari

duvar_yazilari

duvar_yazisi

duvar-kagitlari

duzenle

ebru-gundes-indir-dinle

edebiyatla-ilgili-komik-fikralar

efe-hotel

egitim_egitimler

egitim-ogretim

eglence_eglencelik

ehliyet-sinav-sonuclari

ekran_monitor

ekran_ses_kartlari

el_ile_yuklenen_melodiler

elazig_mhp_belediyesi

Electra_Carmen

elektronik-devre-cizim-programi

eleman_elemanlar

elite-turk

Elle-Macpherson

email_e-mailler

emekli_emeklilik

emlak_emlakcilar

ems_logo

en_atesli_taraftar

en-guzel-ask-siirleri

en-hizli-kosan-kus

en-iyi-siteler

ensest

ensest_resimleri

ericson-melodileri

ericson-samsung-cep-telefonlari

erkek_erkekler

erkek-erkekler

erotik_video_klipler

erotik-ask-ve-cinsel-arzular

erotik-hikayeler

erotik-itiraflar

erotik-resimler

erotik-resimler-bayan

erotizm

erotizm-ve-cinsellik

eski-antika-paralar

espri_espriler

Estella-Warren

etek-alti-resimleri

etkileyici-sozler

Eva-Herzigova

evli-kadinlar

evlilik-hazir-cep-mesajlari

ezan-ezanlar

f1-formala-grand

fal-tarot-fallari

fantezi-resimleri

fare-mause

felsefe-kulubu

felsefe-sozlugu

fenerbahce_hazir_cep_mesajlari

fenerbahce-hazir-cep-mesajlari

fikra-komik-fikralar

filiz-akin

film-gibi

fizyoloji

flash

flash_flashlar

flashget-1.65

flash-komikler

flash-swish-yeni

flort

flower-flowers

formula-1

forum_basvurusu

forum-forumlar

free-mp3-download

free-tv

frikik-frikikler

futbol-yorum

galatasaray-hazir-cep-mesaj

game_dos

gazeteler

gazeteler-gazete

gece-yolculari-yeni-mp3

gecmis_olsun_cep_mesajlari

gecmis-olsun-hazir-cep-mesajlari

gelinim-olurmusun

gelinlik_modelleri

gelinlik-modelleri

gem-wk1

gercek-muzikler

gerekli_siteler

gerekli-siteler

geyik_komedi

geyik-ve-otesi

gezi-geziler

gif-gifler

Gisele-Bundchen

giyilmesi-yasak-kisveler

gizli-kamera-frikik-resimleri

gizli-klasor-download

gokyuzu-neden-mavidir

gora-film-replikleri

green-card-turkiye

gta-kurtlar-vadisi

gta-vice-city-yamalar

gulmek-inin-nedenler

gunesin-sicaklik-derecesi

gunluk-guncel-ve gazete

guzel_sozler1

guzeller_galerisi

guzel-mesajlar

haber-borsa

haber-haberler

hakan-toprak

Halle-Berry

hande-yener

harika-avci

harita-haritalar

Harry-Potter-Prisoner-of-Azkaban

hasan-yasar

hatiralar

hatun-hatunlar

hayat-hikayeleri

hayir-hayir-olamaz

hayvan-hayvanlaralemi

hayvan-resimleri

hazir_mesajlar

hazir_mesajlar2

haziran-gecesi

haziran-gecesi-resimleri

Heidi-Klum

hex-renk-kodlari

host-hosting

hulya-avsar

hulya-avsar-resimleri

hz-ali

ibrahim-tatlises

iddaa_canli_maclar

iddaa-bahis

iddaa-iddaa-sonuclari

ilac-fiyatlari

ilahi-mp3ler

ilce-ilceler

ilginc

ilginc-ilginc_resimler

iliski-iliskiler

ilk-bulusma

ilk-ogretim

ingiliz-ingilizce

ingiltere-hotel-fiyatlari

insaat-sirketleri

insan-insanlar

inter-internet

internetten-para-kazanmak

irakta-iskence-fotograflari

irakta-kafa-kesme-goruntuleri

irmak-unal-resimleri

is-search

isimler

isimleri

islami-ilahiler

islam-islamiyet

ismail-yk

is-makinalari

istanbul_cihangir

italyan-yazarlar

itiraf_itiraflar

iyi_yolculuklar_hazir_cep_mesajlari

iyiki_ask_var

izmirin-doga-resimleri

java-javalar

java-sanal-makinasi

java-scriptler

Jennifer-Lopez

Jenny-McCarthy

Joshua-Malina

joyturk

kader-kaderimsin

kadin_moda_bakim

kadin-dogum-kontrolu

kadin-kadinlar

kadinlar_ve_erkekler

kagit-icat

kalp-kazanmak

kalp-resimleri

kandil_mesajlari

kandil-mesajlari

kapadokya

kapi_kolu

karadeniz

kara-kalem-calismalari

karikatur

kart-kartlar

kayahan-yeni-albüm

kaya-metal

kazaa

kazaa_lite_download

kendini_aska_birak

kilavuz

kirac-bedava-mp3-indir

kita-kitalar

kitapevleri

kizlar

klavye

klip-klipler

Knight_Online

kolejli_kizlar

komedi-komik

komik_fikralar

komik_flash_animasyon

komik_gazete

komik_karikaturler

komik_resimler

komik_sms

komik_sms_sozleri

komik_tv

komikev

komik-hazir-mesajlar

komik-siteler

komik-sozler

komik-videolar

konferans-duyurusu

korpe_kizlar

kpss

kpss-sinav-sonuclari-aciklandi

kredi-karti-basvurusu

kredi-kredikarti

Kultur_Sanat

kultur-kulturel

kulup-kulupler

kurban-bayrami-mesajlari

kurtlar_vadisi

kurtlar_vadisi_melodileri

kurtlar-vadisi

kurtlar-vadisi-melodileri

kurumlar-vergisi

kutlama_hazir_cep_mesajlari

kutlama-mesajlari

Kylie-Minogue

lez_lezbiyen

lise

liseler-kolejler

liseli_kizlar

liseli_kizlarin_sex_resimleri

liseli-dilara

liseli-kizlarla-sinirsiz-sohbet

liseli-lolitalar

lise-liseler

list-hotel-antalya

logomelodi

logo-melodi

love-ask-mesajlari

mac_maclar

mac-maclar

magazin

mailturk

maket-otomobil

mani-mesajlari

manken-frikikleri

mankenler

manzaralar

manzara-resimleri

maria-sharapova

mario-oyunu

markalar

meb-lise-ilkokul

medya

mehmet-ali-nuroglu

memurlar

mesaj-at

messenger-hata

midi-midiler

milli-piyango

mirc-reklam-botu

mirc-scriptler

misrosoft-front-pages-2003

mobilya

modem-adsl

modem-modemler

modifiye

monica-bellucci

motorlu_tasitlar

motor-motorsiklet

motorola_cep_telefonu_modelleri

mp3-mp3ler

msn-arkadas

msn-arkadaslik-siteleri

msn-messenger

muhabbet

muhasebe-elemanlari

murat-gogebakan

muslum-gurses

mustafa_kemal_ataturk

mustafa-sandal

mutfak

muzik

muzik_yeni_albumler

muzik-sistemleri

muzik-siteleri

nokia-wav

nasil-oynanir

natalia-nataly

nazan-oncal-mp3leri

naz-elmas-resimleri

need-for-speed-underground

nefret-mesajlari

nez-frikikleri

noel-dayi

nokia_cep_telefonu_modelleri

nokia_melodileri

nokia-cep-telefonlari

nokia-oyunlari

norton-antivirus

nostaji-mp3

numara

numaralar

oflu-hoca

ogrenci

ogretmen1



okey-oyunu

okullar

online_bahis

online_muzik-dinle

online_oyunlar

online-muzik.dinle

opusmek

ordu-resimleri

Orospu-MaNKeNLeR

oss

osym-sonuclari

otel-hoteller

oto-lastik-resimleri

otomobil-araba

otomobil-resimleri

oyun_hileleri

oyun-hileleri

oyun-oyunlar

oyun-siteleri

ozge-ozberk-resimleri

ozlem-mesajlari

ozlem-ozlemek

ozlu-mesajlar

ozur_mesajlari

ozur-mesajlari

Pamela-Anderson

paparazi_magazin

pc-computer

pekiyi

pembesayfa

Penelope-Cruz

penis-rahatsizliklari

php-scriptler

pinar-kurkut

plan-planlar

platonik-ask

playboy-kizlari

polifonik-melodi

Porno-Sex

posta-kodlari

program_download

program-arsivi

psikiyatri

pusulayi-kim-icat-etti

radyo-dinle

ramazan-bayrami-mesajlari

rejim-diyet

renkli-animasyon

renkli-logo

renkli-resimli-mesajlar

resimler

resimli-mesajlar

rize-artvin

rus-hackerlar

ruya

ruya-tabirleri

ruya-yorumlari

sadece-sex

safranbolu

saglikli-beslenme

Sagopa-Kajmer

sahibinden-kiralik-daireler

sahin-mgp

sair-sairler

saka-sakalar

samsung_cep_telefonu_modelleri

sanal-sex

sanat-sanatlar

sanayi-rehberi

Sandra-Bullock

sans-oyunlari

sari-yildiz

sans_dilekleri_hazir_cep_mesajlari

sarkicilar

sarki-mesajlari

sarkisozu

satilik-turkcell-hat

sayfa-yukleniyor

sayisal-loto

script_scriptler

seda-sayan-parcalari

sehir-sehirler

seks-hikayeleri

semra-hanim

seray-sever

seslichat

sesli-chat

Seslisohbet

sesli-sozluk

sevda-karababa

sevgi_forum

sevgi_mesajlari

sevgi_sevgiliye

sevgi_siirleri

sevgi_sozleri

sevgili_ne_arar

sevgililer_gunu

sevgiliye-mesajlar

sevgi-mesajlari

sevgi-sevgili

sevgiye-ve-aska-dair

sex_hatiralari

sex_hikayeleri

sex-arkadasiniz-cevriye

sex-filmi

sexhikayeleri

sex-partner

seyahat

sezen-aksu

showtv_ikinci_bahar

showtv-frekans

sibel_can_resimleri

sibel-Can

Sibel-Kekilli

siemens_cep_telefonu_modelleri

sifali_bitkiler

sifre-kirici

siir-siirler

Sima-Karatar

simens

sinav

sinav-sorulari

sinema

sinema-sinemalar

siyaset-siteleri

sms

sms_mesajlari

sohbet_aski

sohbetodalari

sohbetodasi

son-dakika-haber

son-dakika-spor

Sony_Ericsson_cep_telefonu_modelleri

sorular

sozluk

sp2-kurulum-hatasi-lisansli

spor_mesajlari

sporcu

spor-sporlar

sports

ssk_hizmet_dokumu

ssk-emekli

SSK-Hizmet-Dokumu

supermp3

superonline

surucu-kurlari

tahmin

takimlar

Tanyeli

tarih

Tarot-Fallari

tasitlar-vergisi

tatil

tatli-tatlilar

tavla-oyna

tc-kimlik-numarasi

TC-Kira-Kanunlari

teklif-mesajlari

teknoloji-bilim

telefon-elektrik-borcu-sorma

telefon-faturasi-sorgulama

telefon-melodileri

Telekom-ADSL

telsim_melodileri

tema

Temel-Fikralar

tiyatro

toplist-scriptler

travel

travesti

tsunami-goruntuleri

Tugba

Tugba-Ekinci

Tugba-Ozay

turistlik-yerler

turizm

turkce_mp3

turkce_sohbet

turkce_ve_yabanci_mp3

Turkce-chat

turkce-download

Turkcell

turkcell_cep_mesaj

Turkce-Mp3

Turkce-Muzik

Turkce-Sohbet

turk-guzeller

turkiye_alternatif_turlari

turku-mesajlari

turlar

tv-radyo

Tyra-Banks

ucretsiz

ucretsizler

ucretsiz-mesaj-atma

ucretsiz-mp3

ucuzluk

Ucuz-Ucak-Bileti

Ucuz-Web-Hosting

ugur-isilak

ulkeler-ulkesi

underground

universiteler

Universiteli-Genclerin-sorunlari

Universiteli-Kizlar

unlulerin-burclari

Unlulerin-Pozlari

Unluler-Ve-Erotizm

Unut-Beni-Sevgilim

Utangac

Uydudan-Casusluk

Uydu-Frekans

Uydu-sifreleri

Vatandaslik-No-Sorgulama

vatandaslik-numarasi

VCD

Vefasiz-Dostlar

vergi

Vergi-Kimlik-No

vergi-kimlik-numarasi

voleybol

Wallpaper

Wap-GPRS-Ayarlari

webcam

web-cam

Web-Dersleri

Xlarge-logo

Yabanci-Gazeteler

Yabanci-Mankenler

yabanci-mp3

Yabanci-Sarkilar

Yabanci-Sarki-Sozleri

Yamalar

yanlis_ask

yanlizlik-mesajlari

yarislar-yarismalar

Yasak-Resimler

yasaksiz

Yasemin-Ergene

Yas-farki

Yataklar

yayin-evleri

Yayin-Online

yazar-yazarlar

yemek-pasta-tarifleri

yeni_yil_hazir_cep_mesajlari

yeni-albümleri

Yenicag

Yeni-Trafik-Cezalari

yeniyil-mesajlari

yeniyilsms

Yerlimp3

yerli-mp3

yillik-odevler

Yol-Hava-Durumu

Yusuf-Ziya-Onis

Zaga-Okan-Bayulgen

Zamana-Birak

zayiflamak_diyet

Zeliha-Cal

Zerda-melodileri

Zerrin-Egeliler

zil-sesleri

Ziyaretci-Defteri

Ziynet-Sali

3650.program.yukle

6230.wap

6600.bedava.oyunlar

6600.program

6600.symbian.programi

6600.symbian.programi

6600.symbian.videolar

6600.walpaper

7610.themes

acem.kizi.kurtlar.vadisi

adsl.dalnet

adsl.online.kota.takip

ahmet.kaya.mp3

aliye.dizi.muzikleri.download

almanca.sozluk

altdvb

amcik

amr.komik.ses

anadolu.guzel.sanatlar.liseleri

anal.sex

animasyon.mizah.komik

animasyonlar.net

antifener

araba.ses.tesisat.com

arac.vergisi

aramam.ibrahim.tatlises

aramam.remix.free.download

arzum

ascii.nickname.construction

asker.siiri

askerlik.subesi.baskanligi

asp.nuke

avsar.ciplak

ay.ikinci.insan

bagkur.borcu.sorgulama.sayfasi

balca.net

banu.alkan

banyo.aksesuar

basur

batak.online

bebek.isimleri

bedava.melodileri

beta.glukan

bilardo.oyunu

bilinmeyen.numara.sorma.servisi

boxer.dergisi.ceza.elif

burc.yorumlari

candan.ercetin.mp3.yalan.free

canli.muzik.dinle

canli.skorlar

cansu.derenin.ciplak.resimleri

casper.klavye.surum

cdkey.serial.no

cehennem.geceleri

cem.yilmazin.yeni.reklami

cengiz.kurtoglu.full.mp3

cep.dunyasi

cep.symbian.oyun.indir

ceptelefonu

ceza.dosyalari

chat.odalari

cine5.sifresi

cine5.xp

cinsel.capkinliklar

ciplak.kizlar

counter.strike.server.cokertmek

crack

cv.ornekleri

davet.kartlari

deep.freezeindir

dell.axim.cep.bilgisayar.u0131

demet.akalin

dev.insan

disco.karadeniz

discovery.biss.key

divx.filmler.download

divx.indirme.programlari

divx.torrent

diyet.listesi

dizi.muzikleri

dj.akman

dj.ekipman

dj.onur.web

dogum.gunu.hediyesi

dostluk

dowland.murat.kekilli

download

download.tr

dursun.ali.erzincanli

dvb.s.offline.download

ebru.destan

ebru.gediz.resimleri

ehliyet.sinav

ehliyet.sinavi

ekart

eleman

emekli.vergi.iade

emrah.keskin

ensest.filmler

erdogan.rize

erkek.resimleri

erken.bosalma

erotik.hikaye

erotik.resim

erotik.resimler.bayan.arkadas

etek.alti

etek.modelleri

etkileyici.sozler

ezan.symbian

fal

fenerbahce.futbolcu.resimleri

feridun.duzagac

fifa.2005.blz.uzantili

film.kemal.sunal.wav

film.yildizlari

filmler

flash.animasyon

flash.mx.crack

football.manager.2005.nasil

fotograf.siteleri

free.x.tv.progdvb

frikik

frikik.tugba.ozay

frikikler.resimler.videolar

full.albumler.bedava.mp3

galatasaray.dergisi

gamegarden.net.gamegarden.net

gamze.ozcelik.popstar.dans.video

gece.yolculari.full.mp3

gece.yolculari.mp3

gelinlikler

geometri.konu.anlatimi

gitar.program

gizli.fotograflar.ve.erotizm

gizli.kamera

gora.bedava.indirmek

gta.kurtlar.vadisi

gulben.ergen

gulsen.video.klip

guzel.kizlar

guzel.resimler

guzel.sozler.dostluk

haber

hack.programi

hacker.programlari

half.life.2.multiplayer.menu

hastane.yemek.masalari

hayalevi

hayvan.resimleri

hayvan.sex

hayvanlarla.seks.resimleri

hazir.mesaj

haziran.gecesi

hediye.secimi.erkek

hikayeler

hile.klavuzu

hileler

hitmp3tr.com

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