More Haggard
Being liberals, we liberals often don't have exactly the best sense of where various rightwing Christian leaders stand vis-a-vis each other. Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, for example, while still famous and certainly of considerable historical importance, aren't the forces within Evangelism that they once were. So, how much does Ted Haggard matter? Noam Scheiber suggests this graphic as a telling illustration of where he fits in, and I tend to agree. He also has a good joke.
Shadenfreude and hypocrisy aside, though, it's be nice -- unrealistic, perhaps, but nice -- if people took this as an opportunity to learn something. Obviously, the other men in that image with Haggard -- Tony Perkins, James Dobson, etc. -- know him, get along with him, and have worked with him as a colleague, like him, think he's a good man, and so forth. And Dobson and Perkins aren't alone. Lots of people have worked with or for Haggard over the years. He's a widely respected man in this country. Should all those people who know him, and have followed him really so sharply revise their views of Haggard, or should they revise their views of gay people? The latter, I think, though I'm not optimistic that's how it'll play.
Comments
Problems -
First, these people are career-oriented. His downfall is their opportunity to thrive.
Second, this story-line encourages that adopted be most semi-rational religious people afraid of homosexuality. To them, homosexuality is trannies, Pride parades, and furtive meetings in alleys with hookers who give you genital warts. This guy's story plays straight into that story-line. So, probably won't undermine it much.
why are evangelicals always smiling in their pictures like today is the happiest day ever? i haven't noticed leaders from other religions doing that.
He can begin to earn sympathy when he's behind bars for fraud. In fact, I'm beginning to understand the Tighty Righties' enthusiasm for tort reform. While not exactly RJ Reynolds material, Haggard's teleparishioners have a pretty strong case for a class-action lawsuit.
"Should all those people who know him, and have followed him really so sharply revise their views of Haggard, or should they revise their views of gay people? "
I think this could reinforce their attitudes. Their opinion is that those with homosexual dispositions can put them aside and live as heterosexuals. Well, he did that, with just a little backsliding. If it were not for homosexuality being tolerated by society at large, he might have had fewer temptations, and not been tempted into acting.
No, the message they will take from this is that gays can live as straights if they just try harder, and have fewer temptations.
Being liberals, we liberals often don't have exactly the best sense of where various rightwing Christian leaders stand vis-a-vis each other.
A case in point would be pat's "fundamentalists" remark above. None of the guys in your picture are fundamentalist in the strict sense of the word. Same with Pat Robertson, who is a charismatic, and possibly Jerry Falwell. Capital-F Fundamentalism is represented by the likes of Al Mohler, whose name rarely gets mentioned in discussions like these.
Haggard denies the sex, his accuser failed the polygraph (albeit on 2 hours sleep) and he's only admitted buying meth once and not using it. So it's still possible he's not gay, just really in need of a backrub and got one and, oh, by the way, I've got some meth if you'd like it and so he bought it in a moment of weakness. An implausible but not unreasonable explanation. But it doesn't really matter.
The interesting thing to me is that the NAE scrubbed their website this a.m. Now there's a statement up there but the site essentially has been taken down. Last night, there was a welcome page with a letter from Haggard, his photograph and, I think, something about the radical leftist at the Air Force Acadmey who was making life miserable for the people who wanted to proselytize on gov. property. All gone. Interesting, no? Why not leave the site intact and simply put something in the news section? This says something about the mindset of this crowd, notwithstanding their affirmations about human sin and forgiveness, that when the leader falls, his legacy goes down the memory hole with him. If lessons are to be learned, at least by the NAE, it doesn't appear that they're ones that lead to growth.
It seems to me that the really key issue here is the fact that Chuck Colson looks like disturbingly like an FBI agent from the 1950s.
You're telling me that unsavory characters would associate with Chuck Colson? Say it ain't so, Matt!
I share your hope, Matt, but also your pessimism.
The progressive take on Haggart, if I may generalize, will be something along the lines of, "What a hypocrite. Well, too bad. I guess that's what happens when a gay man hides way too deep in the closet, lives in a culture that demonizes his sexual orientation, and develops the kinds of pathologies inherent in a life of such denial and shame." (Okay, my psychobabble could use a little work.)
But the fundamentalist take will probably be something like, "What a pervert. He gave in to the temptations of the flesh." Many fundamentalists, and I am not kidding here and speak from experience, will literally blame Satan, either as the source of temptation or an agent of possession.
Maybe Dobson, Perkins, et al. can buck that fundamentalist view on a personal level (doubtful, but maybe). I'd be absolutely floored, though, if they were to do so in public.
And by "Haggart," of course, I meant "Haggard." Ted Haggart, whoever he is, has not been implicated in any way. Please don't sue me, Mr. Haggart, sir.
Wade:
Thanks. I tend to slap the fundamentalist label on just about any folks who seem to take a significantly more literalist approach to the Bible than I do.
What do you think a more precise and accurate description of these fellas would be? Not "Evangelical", because that's way too broad for these purposes, I think. "Christianists" I just cant's stand for aesthetic reasons. How about the old stand-by, "Conservative Christians"?
I think one of the questions to ask isn't, "How much do we know about these guys?" It's "How much do his peers know?" Shouldn't someone who thinks of themselves as having a window into human spirituality have a better sense about one of their peers than these guys apparently have? Kids maybe don't understand repressed sexuality, but they know creeps. And a repressed homosexual who bashes homosexuality in public but who relies on a gay prostitute in private is a creep of the 1st water. The Dobsons of the world can't tell if one of their peers is a creep? All it takes to not be a creep is to cant loudly? The notion of spiritual cant and its crushing bogosity levels never occurs to them? I don't buy it.
Where is Jonathan Swift when we need him most? Dead, damn it.
Ted Haggard is not a leader of evangelicalism, he's a leader of political evangelicalism, a/k/a the Religious Right. There's an overlap but they aren't the same thing. I'm willing to bet that a lot of evangelicals have never heard of Ted Haggard.
DK over at Josh Marshall's place got it pretty close to mark today: "While evangelical Christians have been a force in national politics for the last two decades, most evangelicals still harbor a deep disaffection with politics. It remains a predominately secular endeavour, in their view, and for many evangelicals there is a strongly held sense that politics, like other aspects of the pop culture, corrupts those who come in contact with it. That has always been the headwind facing Republicans seeking to rally evangelicals to political purpose."
And another question . . .
Should all those people who know him, and have followed him really so sharply revise their views of Haggard, or should they revise their views of meth users?
Hey, let's get real. The only one of those guys that doesn't look gay himself is Dobson. The rest of them oughta gang up on him and do him good.
If someone's too well groomed and smiles too much, just ask:
Gay? -- or a preacher?
Look at the lips on Colson. He probably learned a few things in jail.
/real
Yeah but Dobson's the one into showering with children to show off your penis and kicking puppies.
And no, those aren't exagerations.
So Haggard tops for Tony Perkins and bottoms for James Dobson? What an informative graphic!
I don't know much about Haggard, but he's the slick, politically-active megachurch preacher who makes a brief appearance in Jesus Camp. There's a memorably creepy scene in which Haggard interacts with a mullet-sporting 12 year old boy who wants to be a preacher. The kid wants to talk about the Holy Spirit, but Haggard is a blatant phony who seems more interested in discussing theatrics. You can read surprise and discomfort in the kid's face at one point.
Color me unsurprised.
I'm enjoying jumping Haggard as much as the next person, but Steve Benen pointed out something that seemed worth knowing:
dammit, Matt, you cropped this graphic all wrong.
go over to Sully's site to see the whole, thing, wedding cake and all.
and then tell me it's not the *gayest* thing ever.
(and I mean that in the nicest possible way, of course).
The Republicans and Evangelical Christians have been conducting social experiments and they have finally proven:
Family-values Republican Christian = Raving Self-loathing Crystal Queen
Capital-F Fundamentalism is represented by the likes of Al Mohler, whose name rarely gets mentioned in discussions like these.
This is not entirely correct. Capital-F Fundamentalism, as traditionally practiced by many Southern Baptists, long advocated church-state separation to avoid "the camel's nose in the tent." For most of the Twentieth Century it also rejected predestination, and embraced "the priesthood of all believers," a non-hierarchical model for church organization (and one reason for many fundamentalist Baptist preachers using the title "Brother"). The irony is that Al Mohler, who now runs the Louisville Seminary of the Southern Baptist Convention, is a proponent of predestination and a more rigid church hierarchy. This is because he is a Dominionist who believes in creating a "Christian nation," not a Fundamentalist. Indeed, he has purged many self-identified fundamentalists from the seminary, and provoked some fundamentalist Baptist churches in Texas to leave the denomination. He is a natural fit with most of the people in the photo above, who are conscious or unconscious Dominionists, along with Dr. D. James Kennedy, Al Mohler's buddy and a protege of Dominionism's founder.
Gad, the Christian Right makes Byzantine history look simple sometimes. And feel free to make Deep Space Nine jokes about Dominionism.
SomeCallMeTim,
I realize how low we have sunk, but I am not yet ready to start handing out praise to people for simply declaring torture wrong. Think about how low you are setting the bar.
The poor Southern Baptists. The seminary in Louisville was once, not long ago, a kind of Southern Baptist Arcadia. Then, the Fundies seized control and purged its humane faculty. Now, mds says that a counter-coup by Dominionists has driven the Fundies out. The process vaguely recalls the more-whackball-than-thou tendencies of the French Revolution.
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