Blind Spots

Lieberman's not just a "moderate" he's on the other side, following the trajectory of an earlier generation of neoconservatives from relatively hawkish Democrat to total agreements with right-wing Republicans.

Matt this is exactly right. It's extremely frustrating isn't it?

And it is important to recognize that, as a neoconservative, a broader regional conflict in the Middle East involving the Us and Iran is not something Lieberman regrets, but something he and his cohort have actively sought. From the beginning they wanted Iraq to catalyze a transformative chain reaction in the region. Beneath the front of dour, statemanlike reserve, Lieberman and friends are rubbing their hands with glee.

Heh.

That's because Lieberman shares something else in common with neoconservative foreign policy analysts - he risks absolutely nothing personally by increasing troop levels in Iraq. Oh, he may know somebody who is there, somebody's son, perhaps. But nobody in his family is there or going there. Even such a wretch as Antonin Scalia had a personal stake in Iraq (his son was there, an Army Captain, last I heard). For Joe, it's just a talking point.

Joe should take some comfort in the earlier shared opinion of another prescient foreign policy bright spark: Geraldo Rivera. While making a stab at legitimate journalism, he also suggested the Iraq war was winnable and that the US was SO winning.

"...following the trajectory of an earlier generation of neoconservatives from relatively hawkish Democrat to total agreements with right-wing Republicans."

Wow. If you meant "total agreement on foreign policy" I wish you would say so. Or just wow. I gotta think on this one. This could be genius or madness.

I think it is plausible that Joe is polishing his mighty warrior sword because he would like to be St. John's running mate. He already did his practice run as independent too...

And why is St. John prostrating himself to the ultra right wing? Because he thinks he can draw in the "centrists" with Lieberman in the general election?

If they succeed, McCain better watch his back. "Et tu, Joe?"

Matt knows a whole lot more about these guys than I do, but early Trotskyite Irving Kristol did later display a general Straussian illiberalism.

"The movement began to focus on such foreign issues in the mid-1970s [citation needed]. However it first crystallized in the late 1960s as an effort to combat the radical cultural changes taking place within the United States. Irving Kristol wrote: “If there is any one thing that neoconservatives are unanimous about, it is their dislike of the counterculture.”[7] Norman Podhoretz agreed: “Revulsion against the counterculture accounted for more converts to neoconservativism than any other single factor."[8]"

Links being iffy, this is just from Wikipedia on "Neoconservatism"

I can't deny that HRC's recent social positions also came to mind.

"On the other side" doesn't quite capture it, I don't think.

Josh Marshall tried to get reactions from GOP reps on the troop boost; most stayed silent, some opposed it.

Lieberman is not just on the other {GOP) side, he's an extreme outlier.

Running mate for McCain? On the contrary, Joe is running for the top of the USA for Lieberman party ticket.

Everybody else like Eric Martin or Publius are fisking Lieberman's piece but MY by referring to the earlier neocons raised, at least for me, the questions of why Lieberman? Or what is Lieberman? Or Beinart or Gerecht?

It might not be simply an covenient association with the Right-Wing in service of AIPAC. There could be a thesis that a hawkish or militaristic liberalism/leftism under stresses domestic or foreign, will often or usually resolve its internal contradictions in illiberalism, and move from that association to a general conservatism, on social and economic issues as well. Or social conservatives become militaristic, or libertarians becoming hawkish.

It might be an etiology or pathology, that would make Lieberman and Beinart start seeing the world entire in Manichaean terms, conflating Al Qaeda/Iraq/Iran and similarly conflating their domestic opposition with their external enemies. This would not be a "mistake" or failure of logic but a compelling need for a consistency to justify a general illiberalism and alienation. When nations do it it is called fascism. Hitler needed a unified ENEMY of Communist Jewry.

Conflating all possible or imaginary opposition into a unitary conspiracy and single enemy is necessary to retain identity. No, Atrios and Digby, if you read the Podhoretz and Kristol quotes above, you will understand why the "dirty fucking hippies" didn't and don't get on TV to discuss Iraq.

This was fun. And I didn't even need to mention Carl Schmitt. Oops.

Observing Leiberman's positions and rhetoric over the past couple years makes me wonder who he is truly representing.

If he were a member Israel's government, his positions make a lot of sense.

I disagree, DDon. Israeli politics tend to be heavy on accountability. Israelis were much quicker learners about their government's Lebanon adventure than we were about Iraq.

Lieberman's knee-jerk pro-invasion bias can only happen when the action is taking place far, far away from you. His imperviousness to strategic thinking would last about 45 seconds in Israel.

Conflating all possible or imaginary opposition into a unitary conspiracy and single enemy is necessary to retain identity.

I'm afraid my sense of humor is failing me, bob mcmanus. Did you mean your comments as an illustration of this social-psychological mechanism? If so, very clever.

"Did you mean your comments as an illustration of this social-psychological mechanism?"

I only have one enemy, comprising about, what 70 million Americans?

I am pretty much cool with the other 99% of the world.

"If he were a member Israel's government, his positions make a lot of sense."

I don't think so. I think the media in Israel would have asked him some tough questions. Lieberman gets a free ride on Sunday gasbag shows here.

Another thing; Iraq war has been a net negative for Israel. It has strenghtened Iraq's Shiites and Iran, both supporters of Hezbollah.

Without a doubt, Lieberman is motivated by what he perceives to be interest of Israel. Rather wrongly.

The debacle in Iraq stems from our lack of friends there. Apart from Kurds, the most reliable friends of the moments are Shia elements most aligned with Iranians.

If the Iraqi army is not sufficiently trained and equipped after all these years, it means that there is no one in that army that we actually trust.

So the failure is quite possible, and the failure will have SOME domino effect, and this effect will not be pleasant for Israel. But making a strong tie between support of Israel, still very popular, and support of the war in Iraq, increasingly unpopular is another kind of risk.

Lieberman and Kristol are anything but crazy. every day we stay in Iraq drive the country deeper into the status of failed state. While the goal of turning Iraq into an American puppet is out of the question, the longer we stay the longer it will take Iraq to be able to function as any kind of effective state. Apart from permanent anarchy, the professional and middle classes are simply abandoning the country. With luck the neocons might see it reduced to a collection of camels and illiterate people living in tents. But every day we stay moves Iraq in that direction, so every day it can be prolonged is a neocon victory.

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