Democratic Hegemonists

I take exceptionalism in this context to be a variation on IOKIYAR. The doctrine of preemptive war? We can invade a country that just might someday develop a weapon that it might give one of our enemies. No other country can invade anyone else ever. Unless we say so.

Try applying any of the myriad justifications for the Iraq war, but as a Syrian thinking about Lebanon. Or as an iranian thinking about Iraq today.

. It requires a strange paucity of imagination to fail to see alternatives to either coercively dominating foreigners or ignoring their existence.

the 'imagination' of which you speak has been expunged from the public discourse by the manichaean jeremiads from both left and right to 'hold the line' and demarcate boundaries. ali's conception of 'isolationist' vs. 'truman' democrats is in the best tradition of this. the arguments used by truman democrats against the isolationists are old, they are simply mild reformulations of the critiques against paleoconservatives. i have known many liberal friends who think that the whole right is 'neocon' (e.g., a christian conservative boss who is 'neocon'). this lack of understanding of political nuance is now resulting in both the left and the right tearing into each other with the sample overly simplistic paradigms that they've used against each other.

whenever i read something like this, i ask myself: "how does someone like this ali eteraz, who is obviously an idiot, get to a place in life where he actually has intelligent people even address his profoundly ignorant and ill-informed views?"

i have yet to find a good answer.

In mild defense, there is a blurring between Liberalism and Hegemony. First, and less importantly, we're still trying to achieve a hegemony of our values and ideas. More importantly, we can craft Liberal institutions that also achieve and encourage hegemony. Is the UN an institution designed to encourage Liberal cooperation among nations, or an institution designed to further US hegemony (of sorts) through our disproportionate power through the Security Council? I would argue that it was both, mostly Liberal (because our power outside the UN is even greater than inside).

Personally, this is why I think of myself as a true Tumanite - but I have nothing in common with those who claim the name (I opposed the Iraq War from the start, etc). I want to craft a Liberal world order, and I want to do it now, so that we can insert provisions and designs that allow the US to "dominate" to some degree.

What this guy doesn't get is that American exceptionalism is only a strength insofar as the rest of the world considers America exceptional. What carried allowed America to prevail in the Cold War was not our belief that our way was better, but the world's belief - indeed, the Soviet people's own belief - that our way was better.

The Bush foreign policy has left the world's view of American exceptionalism in tatters. That's why left-leaning realists no longer take its existance as an undisputed fact.

"The implication that non-Trumanites are all blanket pacifists (name one: Al Gore? Carl Levin?) is unworthy of serious debate."

Is this what passes for thinking, Matthew? The assertion was a generalization. You cannot contradict a generalization by cherrypicking a handful of counterexamples.

Matthew is smart and sophisticated enough to know this, so deceit is the only explanation for him pulling this tawdry trick.

I note that "Trumanite" hegemonism has relatively little relationship with the policies of Harry Truman.

Indeed.

All these hawkish "liberals" who claim the Harry Truman mantle were, if Harry Truman were around today, find him exactly the "wrong" kind of Democrat: they would find his comments about Republicans to be "non-constructive and overly partisan", they would find his actions in Congress to be bordering on treasonous ("how dare he question the conduct of our patriotic war contractors in this time of national crisis ... and for his own political gain?") and they would find that his foreign policy "lacked seriousness as he's not willing to confront the communist threat directly but instead wants to contain it in a manner that is tantamount to capitulation".

Ironically, given the arguments made by the hawks, many of whom even then claimed to worship Harry Truman, they would also ask "would you try to contain Hitler?" when containment was developed in part to avoid the mistakes that led to WWII, in which Hitler wasn't even contained and then the war was too much, too late, so to speak.

Why does Ali's idiotic "Trumanism"/"Isolationism" binary even merit discussion? Indeed, how does third-grade thinking of this sort even get aired?

I'm with Mark above. Ali's writing looks like pure propagandistic idiocy. How much longer are we going to have to take this stuff seriously?

Also, the whole "pacifism" thing is total silliness (as is "isolationism"). These are nothing but propaganda buzz words. The issue is that we have a *pro-war* party in this county, a group of people who believe that war is a helpful and healthy policy instrument that should be used routinely. This is very dangerous in a nuclear world. What propagandists call "pacifism" is simply the idea that war should genuinely be a last resort, instead of a first option.

There are Truman Democrats--and there are MacArthur Democrats.

I think the best demonstration of dedication to the concept of liberal institutionalism in foreign policy, even if only as a symbolic act and statement of principle, would be to insist on int'l war crimes trials for the leading members of the Bush administration. Including of course the top two.

"International" being the key concept. Let the world decide. The futility of the effort should be no argument against trying. I can't speak for him in detail, but Scott Horton at Balkinization is an expert on Nuremberg who has ideas.

The whole world is watching.

Not to defend the contemporary "Trumanites" at all, but I think it is worth pointing out that hegemony doesn't mean domination by force. Even in the IR context, Gramsci's use of the term prevails: achieving hegemony means arranging that others perceive your self-interest as the public good, so that they act in ways conducive to your interests even as they believe that they are acting simply according to common sense. Obviously, this isn't the sort of thing that just happens because you've got lots of guns and money: a country needs to define and articulate its self-interest in ways that are amenable to such a perception by others. And that country's actions must be consistent with that perception. Where the Trumanites seem to have gone badly wrong is in believing that it matters a whit whether Americans endorse American exceptionalism or American hegemony; what matters is what everyone else thinks. The very fact that these idiots and their neocon allies launched the Iraq fiasco makes it very unlikely that anyone will think American exceptionalism a good idea ever again.

From what I've read of Eteraz prior to this, he's not an idiot, present evidence to the contrary.

I think our host deals well with the "pacifism" trope inherent with "the left's" rejection of the use of force. Who among us (aside from perhaps McManus) really opposed Afghanistan? Who among us would be opposed in principle (as opposed to the likely clusterfuck that our neo-con overlords would make of it) to the use of force in Darfur?

As to the other two, Eteraz manufacturers an outright rejection from disagreement over the meaning of those terms "exceptionalism" and "hegemony". To the extent that "exceptionalism" is indeed synonymous with IOKIYAUSA, that's a Bad Thing, insofar as it means that we should strive to be exceptional, it's a good thing. That's neither a minor nor especially difficult to grasp distinction.

Similarly, to the extent "Hegemony" means America Unbound and preemptive, unilateral action, it's bad in large part because it contradicts the three aspects of Trumanism we supposedly embrace (not to mention the "good" version of exceptionalism.) To the extent it means "leadership" it's Good. Again, this isn't hard, unless you need a straw man to make you feel better about enabling poorly conceived and even more poorly executed policies.

As the founder of the Truman Project, which started the Truman Democratic movement, I have to jump in here. Despite the efforts of people outside our movement to define a Truman Democrat, we do have a very solid set of principals: www.trumanproject.org/values--which would advocate for policies PRECISELY like this strategy Matt Yglesias suggests.

We certainly do not believe in exceptionalism or use of wanton force--but very much believe that American power is of necessity in a world in which real evil exists, and that when America lives up to its own ideals, it has the power of exemplarism--to lead by example. However, to use that power, as Truman realized, requires placing boundaries on it by forcing it to generally be used with allies and within international organizations. In other words, a policy of liberal internationalism, with a strong connection made between domestic values and those we advocate abroad, is the core of our philosophy.

Once a movement starts, it always faces definition from friends and enemies--but for those of you who want to understand what we are about, our own website and writings are the best place to look.

Funny, I kept reading his name as "ersatz".

owenz at 4:51 pm: "The Bush foreign policy has left the world's view of American exceptionalism in tatters. That's why left-leaning realists no longer take its existance as an undisputed fact."

Not this left-leaning realist. U.S. foreign policy, as actually experienced on the ground by its recipients, directly or via U.S. clients, is what soured me on American exceptionalism, long before this Bush. Napalm, torture, coups, terrorist attacks, disappearances... That kind of thing.

Who among us (aside from perhaps McManus) really opposed Afghanistan? Who among us would be opposed in principle (as opposed to the likely clusterfuck that our neo-con overlords would make of it) to the use of force in Darfur?

I think Afghanistan was more or less a waste of time given our stubborn freakout at the time not only to think about where those people came from, why a huge chunk of the world thought were asking for it, but to double down on the whole project.

I don't know what kind of "force" you want to bring down on Darfur but what the place needs is water and unfortunately more space than is geographically there. Try and figure out exactly how you would keep ranchers and native tribes from trying to get rid of each other in the 1800's American Southwest but compress the landspace, it all turns into desert in the course of twenty years and there are ten times as many of them. That's what you are trying to solve with ordinance.

Competition with the Soviet Union meant we had to think harder before we did things because the consequences of wrong decisions could be severe. We still messed up frequently -- that's life -- but we were more serious about thinking through foreign policy.

The fall of the Soviets meant that we don't have any real competition, so we can afford to do stupid things (think how many more Americans would be dead in Iraq if we had a rival superpower supplying the insurgents with arms). And so we have.

Nell at 08:07 PM: "Not this left-leaning realist. U.S. foreign policy, as actually experienced on the ground by its recipients, directly or via U.S. clients, is what soured me on American exceptionalism, long before this Bush. Napalm, torture, coups, terrorist attacks, disappearances... That kind of thing."

I don't necessarily disagree your point, Nell. But "American exceptionalism," insofar as it was a thing that could once be leveraged and relied on, was always a function of worldwide opinion. In other words, it boiled down to a giant public opinion poll of the world's feelings about America. There wasn't too much wrong with Americans believing their country was special when sizeable portions of the world agreed. With America's worldwide popularity at all time lows, however, the belief of Americans in the singular greatness of the United States comes off as preening, overconfident, and decadent. It doesn't bode well for the future.

Truman begged the Soviet Union to invade Japan-occupied Korea near the end of WWII.

That the result would be a split along the East/West Europe was easily foreseeable.

Truman made the Korean split permanent by refusing to allow the Korean government-in-exile to take power after WWII.

That dirty hippy Truman also turned down proposals to overthrow Mossadegh that, when Eisenhower didn't turn them down, lead to all those Iranians chanting "death to america" a quarter of a century later. Obviously he represents an anti-American strain of liberal isolationism that must be purged from the Democratic Party if it hopes to survive our Age of Terror.

American power is of necessity in a world in which real evil exists

This will be an idea which the world is ready to embrace again in about 10 years. In the meantime, it's time for a period of what Daniel Patrick Moynihan would have called "benign neglect". At most, the US should say its forces are willing to go, if asked. We have no credibility left to be pushing our views, and our power, on anyone.

Who among us would be opposed in principle (as opposed to the likely clusterfuck that our neo-con overlords would make of it) to the use of force in Darfur?

I would support action in Darfur only if that meant that we would then intervene in other mass scale tragedies in Africa that weren't Moslim vs. Christian and therefore darling causes of the Christianists. When Pat Robertson and his diamond business are in bed with slaughterers in the wars in West Africa and no one on the Christian Right bothers to be publicly concerned about it, I find this intense interest in the cause in Darfur, while a tragedy, from people who hardly otherwise care about foreign affairs to be more than somewhat hypocritical. It's a bandwagon based on a religious "us vs. them" that I am not eager to jump on nor that I wish to see as a basis for US policy. Rememeber 10 years ago in Bosnia when Christians were persecuting Moslims and there was mass suffering and people on the Right were acutely loathe to intervene.

What does the world do when a decent portion of that really existing evil comes from the US government? There is a real dividing line between those Dems and others who feel comfortable with the self appointed rights of exceptionalism and those who see us as one imperfect constitutional republic among others.

I would support action in Darfur only if that meant that we would then intervene in other mass scale tragedies in Africa that weren't Moslim vs. Christian and therefore darling causes of the Christianists.

It's NOT Christian vs. Muslims. The parties identify as Arab and African respectively but they are almost all Muslim with a smattering of Christians on either side. Arab identity means you speak Arabic and derive your history from Arabia. Likely no one reading this blog would be able to tell visually who was Arab and who was African in Sudan.

Ok, I KNOW this is off topic, but I just have to ask because I know you're a fan. Is Veronica Mars canceled or what? Is it on hiatus? Or is it just the end of the season? I've been recording it but lately it hasn't showed up and I don't see it on anytime soon. I'm dying to know.

Ok, I KNOW this is off topic, but I just have to ask because I know you're a fan. Is Veronica Mars canceled or what? Is it on hiatus? Or is it just the end of the season? I've been recording it but lately it hasn't showed up and I don't see it on anytime soon. I'm dying to know.

Hiatus, though this season has been far below the standard set by the first two. The "class warfare" subtext which made the show interesting is largely gone, so now it's just another (albeit well-written) teen dramedy with CW-enforced low production values.

"American exceptionalism" means rejecting any notion that the US could ever act for cynical motives. As Eteraz and his ilk mean it, anyway.

And for Rachel Kleinfeld's benefit, I think Eteraz is using "Trumanite" to avoid mentioning Scoop Jackson. Few remember who Scoop Jackson was anymore, and besides, McCain has been wrapping himself in Jackson's mantle so Eteraz can't anymore. Besides, using Jackson's name means Jackson-Vanik, and that's something no fightin' Dem wants to dredge up from the vasty deep.

The interesting thing about Eteraz is that bush's claims to be channeling Harry Truman apparently don't bother him.

I think the recent totemization of Truman has nothing to do with his policies or strategic thinking or whatever.

Instead, it is based on the fact that he is the real "give 'em Hell Harry": so far the only leader to use nuclear weapons.

So far.

I take American exceptionalism to mean the belief that in some qualtitative way America, and Americans, are just better then anyone else. Yes, Eteraz is right. As a liberal, I reject this notion. I do not believe there is anything inherently better or worse about America or Americans. Accepting this means havign to admit that we have no more right to invade other countries or attempt to control their governments, then they have a right to invade our country or control our government. I believe that the general idea of "American exceptionalism" is, in large part, reposible for many people also believing we SHOULD invade/control other countries in various ways.

"The implication that non-Trumanites are all blanket pacifists (name one: Al Gore? "

Of course, Gore is most definitely not a non-Trumanite...

I loved it when Harry S Truman and Robert A Taft jerked each other off in the Senate cloak room over the delicious prospect of gutting the powers of labor unions. It's a shame Joe Liebertruman didn't - in the same spirit - vote for closure on that bill that would have demolished democracy protection for the middle class, and that George W Bush-Truman vetoed it.

Note the slip of tongue in that last comment. It kind of works that way too, no?

Matthew and all are right about Eteraz, who I'd never heard of and have no interest in hearing of again. But I do have to defend him on one point: pace Rachel K., he has every right to call himself a Truman Democrat even if someone else bought the domain name first.

"I do not believe there is anything inherently better or worse about America or Americans."

So the United States is no better (or worse) than say, Libya? Just different?

"American power is of necessity in a world in which real evil exists"

I always mistrust people who spout this kind of rhetoric. You really don't need to understand very much history to realize that American foreign policy has been responsible for a good bit of evil in this century. So why this simplistic, comic-book juxtaposition of Good America and Evil World? What agenda is being served here? Some humility, please.

(And yes, I know the great exception of WWII, when we did unambiguous good. But that was a very specific set of circumstances, and I don't trust our ability to do it again. Our foreign policy record outside of WWII has been quite checkered, which is why the neo-cons were constantly milking the WWII analogies).

"So the United States is no better (or worse) than say, Libya? Just different?"

Faced with the same set of historical, geographic, economic circumstances as Libya, we might well do worse. Faced with the reality of Iraq, we did worse than Saddam Hussein. So where is all your confidence coming from?

Our differences exist, but they are a result of our history and circumstances. These do not export. We are not *better* people, just more blessed people. We are the beneficiaries of one of history's great gifts.

"Faced with the same set of historical, geographic, economic circumstances as Libya, we might well do worse."

"We are not *better* people, just more blessed people."

So the state of Libya today as compared to the United States, is one of the accidents of geography & economic circumstance, not one of the differences between Americans & Libyans? If we weren't more "blessed" we might be just as regressive a state?

Let's try one with more coheesive geography. Is South Korea a better, worse or exactly the same as North Korea?

How about one more locally. Would you say the values & the culture of people that inhabit the New England & mid Atlantic regions of the U.S., (New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Vermont, Delaware, Maryland) are superior to, lesser than or the same as the people who inhabit the deep south regions of the United States (Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina)? Are such differences (if they exist) due to any differences between the people's of the differing regions or are they almost entirely due to accidents of history & geography?

So the United States is no better (or worse) than say, Libya? Just different?

Insofar as America does better things than Libya...

I am curious if Matt Y, blogging heads TV has read Robert Wright's Nonzero. Matt?

In my personal opinion it is excellent, until perhaps the last chapter, at showing a grand unifying force in progress as well as highlighting how difficult it is to set up mechanisms that increase nonzero-sumness.

The Democrats foriegn policy (much like the Republicans) will follow whatever Israel dictates. However, Iraq is a diversion. As the army attacks Iraq, the US gov't erodes rights at home by suspending habeas corpus, stealing private lands, banning books like "America Deceived" from Amazon, rigging elections, conducting warrantless wiretaps and starting 2 illegal wars based on lies. Soon, another US false-flag operation will occur (sinking of an Aircraft Carrier by Mossad) and the US will invade Iran, (on behalf of Israel).
Final link (before Google Books bends to gov't demands and censors the title):
America Deceived (book)

Truman wasn't an "American Exceptionalist" and didn't believe in American hegemony. To try to attach Truman's name to such things is mere propaganda. Those are contemporary notions and date from the run-up to St. Ron Bootblack.

And "the use of force"? that's a sentence fragment.

DRR's question is interesting.

America is clearly a betetr place to live than Libya. South Korea is a better place to live than North Korea. But why? And more importantly, does the fact that the American state treats Americans better than the Libyan state treats Libyans, mean that the American state will treat other coutnries better than the Libyan state?

The reality is that the US is a great palce to lvie because of a series of historical struggles that have given ordinary Americans a great deal of control over their own government. Of course we could do much better, but the practical realities of democracy mean that that it's very hard for the government to arbitrarily jail, dispossess, censor, etc. ordinary Americans (or even put a stop sign where people don't want it.) It is people's ability to vote, hold rallies, join organizations, ublish articles (and blogs!), attend hearings, etc. that makes America a great place to live. Not some intrinsic virtue we have as Americans.

But in the rest of the world, the US state does not face any of those constraints. And so there is no reason toexpect it to behvae any differently from other states -- aggressively pursuing the "national itnerest" as defined by the elite. And unliek msot other countries, the US is not even particuarly constrained by the action of other states, by social and personal ties across borders, or by (as in Europe and Japan) a history that clsoes off aggressive war as a tool of policy. So in foreign policy, the US is as immoral (or rather amoral) as Libya, and much more dangerous.

I don;t think is so complicated. But DRR's point of view -- that America is a great place to live ebcause Americans' are intrinsically great people -- is unfortunately widespread and is a huge obstacle to rational discussion.

Too many comments upthread are attempting to use the idiotic nature of Eteraz's comments to insinuate that he is an idiot. This is precisely wrong. Eteraz is explicitly attempting to redefine a term with some political appeal to be synonymous with his own unpopular views. That's how the game is played. This is a propaganda piece. Plenty of very smart, irredeemably evil people like Charles Krauthammer do this for a living. It's high time for liberal internationalists to reclaim the mantle of Truman before it is dragged through the mud any further.

(It is possible, however, that Marty Peretz really is an idiot.)

As far as I can tell, Eteraz' definition of "isolationist" is no more than someone who wants withdrawal from Iraq. I don't think you can define an entire philosophy of foreign policy based on one issue, especially one where there is widespread agreement across political party and ideology.

Eteraz is doing the same thing that many war advocates, including the president himself, do, which is to label any opposition to the war "isolationist." Are there any prominent political figures who are actually true isolationists? Who want us to abandon our security commitments to Europe and NATO, to our Asian and Pacific allies, to Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States? I can't think of any.

Moreover, conservatives use "isolationist" in the same way they use "liberal," as a derogatory label to a perfectly legitimate position. Is our foreign policy debate so narrow that we reject out of hand those who would advocate withdrawing forces and commitments from states whose security has little bearing on our own? The true "isolationist" position is as legitimate a position as a liberal or realist one, and probably more intellectually and morally defensible than this neoconservative garbage.

I'm sure others have mentioned this but ask any historically literate American 'which President had the lowest approval rating since they began polling in 1939' the answers almost always are Nixon, LBJ, or Carter but the correct answer is of course Harry Truman in 1952. The Republicans successfully deployed some of the same rhetoric about Truman's softness that they are deploying today. Ideas matter, and the rehabiliation of Joseph McCarthy by Ann Colter and others reasonates strongly with many cutting edge conservatives today because he is indeed both the rhetorical forebearer of Newt and many neo-conservatives of the sort that tend to people the Fox All-Stars
Harry Truman is a great President in part because he chose to use nuclear weapons in Japan and refused to use them in Korea. He paid a terrible political price.
The idea of course that Truman or Ike or JFK would have been drawn to this utopian scheme in Iraq is of course completely ludicrous.

I'm not sure what American exceptionalism is supposed to mean in this context.

The same thing it means in any other context - "Our shit don't stink."

Very well said L. Pitkin.

DRR -- Americans are not inherently better people than anyone else. Our fortunate historical circumstances include our heritage of culture and institutions. As Lemuel Pitkin above points out, outside of our borders, we are not operating within those institutions or that cultural context, and hence we are just as liable to fall into evil as anyone else. It is the institutions and culture that constrain.

We can and should stand as an example of healthy political and economic institutions to the rest of the world. But we have no idea how to transplant those institutions by force, and furthermore the *attempt* to transplant them by force corrupts the institutions. Also, precisely because we are so self-satisfied and arrogant about the merits of our own society we have shown difficulty understanding and operating in other cultural contexts.

The notion that Americans are inherently better people than other human beings is a fundamentally mystical one that is doing a lot of damage, and is at the root of a lot of foolishness.

P.S. why did you ask the question about Northerners being better people than Southerners? Are you silly enough to believe this, or is it somehow related to a caricature you have of liberals?

Good for Ali Eteraz -- getting some publicity. He's carving out a space (as a Muslim) that will be very congenial to liberals and progressives in the future. I don't cary much for the post MY quoates, but this post is quite important. You can't leave it to Instapundit types to defend non-American liberals.

Petey you dumbass. Gore is not a Trumanite or a Trumanlite.
YOu often have intelligent comments when you put down the script.
More independent thinking and less paid trollisms.

Mr. Yglesias,

I've written a reply to your answer:

http://www.democracyarsenal.org/2006/12/truman_democrat.html

I think the real question begged by Dr. Eteraz's reply is who is "the Left"? To keep up with the Truman Democrat analogy, is "the Left" of Pelosi, et al (anyone who accuses Harry Reid of being a leftist is very silly and doesn't deserve a response, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume Dr. Eteraz does not include Reid in this category), really the Left of Henry Wallace as these "be like Truman, not the Left" would imply it is? Or is the distinction between "the Left" and "Truman Democrat" a false dichotomy? Certainly many, though Dr. Eteraz makes clear that he does not fully do so as he opposes the war in Iraq, would ascribe the Truman a militaristic foreign policy (btw ... is Dr. Eteraz seeking to reclaim the word "hegemony"? if so, I he's scored major points with me, for whatever much my opinion counts, but if he's not aware of for what "hegemony" is a code, he's being deeply unconstructive, nu?) for the lack of which Truman himself, as pointed out above, was criticized. Many of us on "the Left" have indeed asked for a Truman-esque policy of "containment" and been shot down as tantamount to being the heirs of Henry Wallace, if not Neville Chamberlain, by people claiming the mantle of Truman. While Dr. Eteraz perhaps is closer to Truman in his policies than those who typically shoot people like me down, his false dichotomy linking people like me with "the Left" still seems to place him on the side of those who would have criticized Truman's lack of seriousness about the Communist threat rather than those who supported Truman's policies, which ultimately won the Cold War.

Perhaps the false dichotomy motivating both the hawks claiming Truman's mantle as well as Dr. Eteraz bubbles closest to the surface with this statement:

Truman Democrats do, however, believe in the use of force, and that is, to me, where the crux of the matter lies. I think the rank and file in the American Left today are very wary of any foreign policy position which takes the use of force as a given -- this is due to Iraq.

How are these distinct positions? I for example, like Truman, do believe in the use of force. But I, like Truman, am also wary of any foreign policy position which takes the use of force as a given. If Dr. Eteraz is suggesting that we should not be wary of using force as a given, he is hardly a Truman Democrat in any historically meaningful sense of the term. Moreover, to claim that the wariness about the use of force possessed by us on "the Left", who are your nominal copartisans, is tantamount to not believing in the use of force is to misrepresent our position as a strawman position, which misrepresentation we can expect from the right, but why should fellow Democrats be misrepresenting such a position that will be used to tar all Democrats, even those claiming the mantle of Truman, who indeed was as wary about force as some of us on "the Left".

However, one thing that is very clever in this reply is the embrace of "realism". The right, (falsely) claiming the mantle of "idealism" tries to tar us as "realists". Perhaps the best approach is to reclaim the term "realist" just as we ought to reclaim the "liberal" label and just as the right managed to rebrand conservatism is a positive ideology. The GOP has used such verbal jujitsu to great effect. It's high time we do so as well. And, FWIW and YMMV, Dr. Eteraz gets beaucoup points in my book for that! ;)

thank you matthew

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