Sunni Versus Shiite

Officials who are elected for their ability to get pork and satisfy interest groups are always going to fail these sorts of tests. Do you think the average member of Congress could tell you about the ideological divisions in the Politburo in 1976?
All we want from them - and all we can reasonably hope - is an ability to think about US politics avoid being easily intimidated into crazy schemes, and a willingness to punish those in the executive branch for past failures.

Honestly, who is really running the country at the moment? The congress has been historically inept, self-marginalized, and incompetent when put in charge of anything. The president is acting like a deranged grade-schooler, getting bad and worse advice from the various cabinet factions, without demonstrating any more faculty than the ability to repeat inane talking points. We keep waiting for the adults in charge to take over (Condi Rice? Robert Gates? Barney?), but no luck so far. Quite literally, global politics have gone insane.

Couldn't Nancy Pelosi have given the Intelligence Committee members a 10-question exam to see who was up to the job and who wasn't? I'm not even asking that any physics questions be on there.

well, this is something congresspeople should be called out on. Hopefully, with the Democrats in power the press and the right will lose their timidity and pretty soon the difference between Sunnis and Shiites will be graven in their heart.

Now, to be fair, I know there are Hutus and Tutsis and Rwanda, but to take a specific person, like Paul Kigame, and ask if they're Hutu or Tutsi, I would have no idea.

It's also an indication that the info they might be getting on the intelligence committee might be tons of "we got Al-Quaeda's number 3" and "Syria's doing this, Iran's doing that, etc", and light on socio-political analysis of the actual people in the region. In other words, light on empathy, how people think of themselves.

It does remind me of the episode in "Yes, Minister" when the civil service was trying to save the Trident missile from cancellation. They decided that the argument they would feed the Defense Secretary was "Trident is the best, and Britain deserves the best", because it was a simple argument, for a simple person.

Common, Matt- they are all darky rag-heads, and that's all that matters, isn't it?

More reasons to support campaign finance reform.

Now, to be fair, I know there are Hutus and Tutsis and Rwanda, but to take a specific person, like Paul Kigame, and ask if they're Hutu or Tutsi, I would have no idea.

It seems odd that you would know who the Hutus and Tutsis are, and know that Paul Kagame is the leader of Rwanda, but not know that he must be a Tutsi because the Hutu leaders were basically exiled to DR Congo after their genocidal excesses.

How could these people be so stupid! I can't stand it!

I know Hutus and I know Tutsis but I can't always remember which was which. Don't underestimate how shallow people's knowledge can be.

For all you historians out there, here is a question.

Were the Roman and British overlords as ignorant of the cultures they dominated? I mean as a whole.

And a follow-up question for all: why is it important that our leaders know something about Middle Eastern culture?

For the record, I think that roublen and Dan Panorama are vastly unqualified to be the chairman of the congressional committee/subcommittee in charge of Afreican affairs, as am I, since none of us know enough about the Hutus and the Tutsis to deal with those issues in the manner in which they should be dealt with. Thankfully, unless Reyes and his Republican predecessors have some strange aliases, none of us are up for that or a related position. Think, though, how pathetic it is that a good deal of the blogosphere understand Iraq better, and Cryptic Ned in the case of Rwanda, better than the government officials charged with deciding policy for the most powerful nation in the world. There is a better understanding of Iraq at a Tapped editorial meeting, or even an MY comment thread, than at a cabinet meeting, and that is really not good.

Does this make everyone as angry as it makes me? Now, I don't know if Reyes is stupid--this really doesn't have anything to do with that. This has to do with Reyes clearly NOT GIVING A FUCK. How much is it to ask that the leaders in our government understand the dynamics of the region that we are at war in? I'm not even asking that he know who Abu Bakr or Ali are (perhaps that's sad in itself), but do you think this guy even knows that Iran is Shi'a or Saudi Arabia is Sunni?

The thing that makes me the most angry, however, is that this guy wants to send MORE Americans into a situation he clearly doesn't understand.

That isn't even the scariest part, this guy is representing a district that is one of, if not the, largest port[s] of entry for illegal immigrants and drugs. This guy is suppose to be dealing wiht issues like North Korean/Iranian WMD proliferation and combating Afhgan Heroin?

Silvestre Reyes opposed the war in Iraq from the time it began ot be discussed, and questioned and criticized the intelligence from the beginning of the drive to war. A fine choice to chair the Intelligence Committee. A fine choice.

Yes, he did vote against the war. But, he DOESN'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BEWTEEN THE SUNNIS AND THE SHI'A and HE WANTS TO SEND MORE TROOPS TO IRAQ! I'm sure you can find plenty of Democrats who opposed the war AND have a fundamental (or even basic) understanding of the place in which we find ourselves at war.

I have been against this war since the beginning and cannot bear the thought of what pure hell we have created in Iraq.
As awful as staying is, if we leave now, our troops will be the only ones to survive this hell of our making.

I don't know that we can stabilize anything there, but we have to try or the civil war will completely destroy a crucial nation thanks to George, Dick 'n Don's brilliant adventure.

Nancy, I think your argument of staying in Iraq "for the Iraqis" is no longer a viable one. An overwhelming majority of the Iraqis believe we should leave, a majority of the US troops (75% if I remember correctly) think we should be out within a year, as well as the American people--the people who actually funded this disaster.

Several months back my position was not all that different than yours. I maintained a false hope that the US could solve the problems in Iraq, despite my initial opposition to the invasion. I was wrong. How can we stay in a country where over 50 percent of the population thinks that killing American soldiers is a warranted form of resistance? Not another American life should be lost so we can stubbornly attempt to find an answer to that misguided question.

My position was do not attack Iraq, then do not occupy Iraq and I have not changed. We ned to leave. I have been hearing that we need to protect Iraqis for 3 1/2 years, but all that happens is more misery. We need to leave, as fast as possible, but George Bush will not leave.

I have heard Silvestre Reyes in the last few days, and there was no mention of more troops for Iraq.

Jennifer,
I'm not sure if you are questioning the fact that Reyes wants to send more troops to Iraq, but for the record he does.

I'd like to compare Iraq to a moderate forest fire burning out of control. It hasn't reached the crown to crown phase yet where it really explodes and runs wild; however, if we just abandon that
fire, I'm afraid it will explode. We won't just have a failed state but a conflagration involving a good part of the Middle East. Iran and Turkey will both get militarily involved. Iran in the Shi'ite ares in the east and south. Turkey most certainly in the Kurdish area. Then Syria, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia will have to come in as well since it will spill over into them as well.
I never wanted us to go into Iraq. It was a criminally stupid thing to do. I would like to be able to leave now, but I fear the consequences of doing so. A regional war will make
everyone's life a hell on earth and that includes us.
If we are to 'solve' this problem (at least, just keep it
simmering and not explode), we need to talk to ALL the Middle East countries. It may be we can't solve the problem but we could at least try. Right now, our president needs to come back from his permanent vacation and do some serious work.

I don't understand how somebody who pays even cursory attention to the daily paper can be so unaware of the players in the central American foreign policy dilemma. Like the '04 re-election of Bush, it's another symptom of how truly broken our political system is.

I remember that the English model Twiggy was told rather late in the day about The Holocaust. Ms. Hornby responded sensibly, "That's terrible". Models can afford good sense where they're lacking in education. Congresscritters need to know things. I mean other than how to shake down a lobbyist.

Who will rid us of these idiots? he asked absolutely rhetorically.

What do you expect?

People will do whatever it takes to be successful at their jobs. If the job is high pressure, and there is much competition to replace slaggards, successful people in that position will have to ruthlessly eliminate any diversion of their energy and attention from the things that truly matter to whether or not they get to keep their jobs.

We have allowed to develope a political culture in which our representatives succeed or fail based on their fund-raising ability, their ability to negotiate successfully for non-competitive districts, and their ability to bring bacon home to those districts. The latter two are increasingly merely extensions of the first, since the coin of the realm in negotiating with fellow legislators is increasingly literal coin, how much cash their re-election campaign can afford to contribute to their buds' re-election campaigns. If knowledge of how the real world, at least the real world outside of the rudimentaries of telephones, faxes, nice restaurants, or whatever other instrumentalities can be used to help shake down potential contributors, works is irrelevant to keeping the job of representative of the people, that useless knowledge has to be systematically ignored, or the fellow, or gal, down the street who is more ruthlessly focused on fund-raising, will soon have your job.

It's bad enough that our political discourse has been debased to the intellectual level of the 30-second spot. It's bad enough that only the folks with the cash to keep those spots on the air wind up getting their voices heard by our representatives. But the very worst result of our decision to effectively decriminalize the bribery of public officials, as long as all concerned call it a campaign contribution, is that those public officials no longer have to, can no longer afford to, "waste" the time necessary to pay effective attention to the real world.

You get what you pay for, and we have the best politicians that money can buy. Only, it turns out money won't buy you folks who know anything about the real world, except how to talk a sucker out of a dollar or ten thousand.

We should send uniforms to the Middle East. Sunnis are the home team so they wear white, while the Shites are the away side so they wear black. To be more culturally attune perhaps we can redesign the keffiyehs so they say Sunni or Shite on one side and the organization the person belongs to on the other (Hezabollah, AlQaeda, PKK) Think English football scarves.

I'm curious how much actual intelligence Reyes has been exposed to. Didn't the Republican committee members essentially freeze out the Democrats, holding their own Secret Squirrel meetings where the real intelligence was discussed? That doesn't excuse ignorance quite on the level demonstrated by Reyes, but it it does at least suggest a partial cause for his lack of motivation to learn.

The distinction between Sunni and Shiite is becoming blurred nowadays though (from a political, not theological point of view).

When I was in Israel, I was shocked to hear from an MK and former Mossad director that during the Lebanon war Hamas and Hizbullah communicated, coordinated and provided logistical support, because Sunni and Shiite extremists are supposed to hate each other as much as they hate Jews and Christians.

Whether this is a Churchill-Stalin type alliance where each is thinking "We'll take care of this common enemy first and then the real battle begins" or, as I fear, the sign of a new, postmodern kind of radical islam which is more about nihilistic, blind hatred of anything Western beyond any theological considerations I don't know.

But if you look at the Western-born and educated terrorits in Europe, they don't define themselves relative to "Sunni" or "Shiite," and don't care about theology. All they know is that they hate the West and want to destroy it, and even though they *claim* to be Muslims (and think they are) they really are not in any sense that a normal Muslim would accept.

This reminds me very much of the way Nazism drew strength and justification from German nationalism but was really a completely different phenomenon. And it scares me a lot.

Glen Tomkins says it best. Except for some of those run-on sentences, which are a little confusing.

There's the law of the classroom, and then there's the law of the schoolyard. Politics is all schoolyard. You can't change the fundamental nature of democracy any more than you can change the fundamental nature of children.

I'll add to PEG's comment, in World War II, the Japanese were considered "honorary Aryans" by the Nazis. Just like the alliance between Hezbollah and Hamas, different ideologies can still have common interests.

Re; Re; Were the Roman and British overlords as ignorant of the cultures they dominated? I mean as a whole.

If you mean the Roman or British people as a whole, the answer is probably Yes. However I strongly suspect that the actual policy administrators of these empires were quite well-versed as to the cultures they subjugated. Julius Caesar even ended up writing a book on Gaul.

Re: Whether this is a Churchill-Stalin type alliance where each is thinking "We'll take care of this common enemy first and then the real battle begins" or, as I fear, the sign of a new, postmodern kind of radical islam which is more about nihilistic, blind hatred of anything Western beyond any theological considerations I don't know.

Almost certainly the former (cooporate against a common enemy, then have at it if the enemy is ever gone). The violence between factions in Iraq proves that Shi'ites and Sunnis are not engaged in some pan-Islamic love-in. The Islamic world takes its theology quite seriously and ecumenism has about as much chance of taking root as democracy.

Silvestre Reyes opposed the war in Iraq from the time it began ot be discussed, and questioned and criticized the intelligence from the beginning of the drive to war. A fine choice to chair the Intelligence Committee.

Or, more than likely, someone handed him a piece of paper that had been massaged by his political committee, who took input from opinion researchers and key supporters, and determined by various political algorithms that this position would be most propitious at that particular moment, subject of course to change.

I join in the celebration of the defeat of the stupid Republicans. But I will pass on the Kool-Ade being offered for us to toast the Democrats replacing them. Both parties need purges that cut rather deeply to dispose of people who are not ready to understand this country's drastically changed situation. What I'm fearing is that the Democratic purges will only take place after having power shows them unqualified to have it. (A lesson Republicans haven't absorbed yet about their own leadership.)

Look it's complicated. For one thing, Saddam was Sunni and he would have nothing to do with al-Qaeda. The mnemonic I use is that Saudis were responsible for 911 and they are Sunni and al-Qaeda got blamed for 911 (does anyone remember when the trial was ?) so that makes al-Qaeda Sunni.
(end snark)

The Shi'a Sunni alliances have always been deeply mistrustfull and temporary. Even in Iraq, there was that period in 2004 when the Shi'a and Sunnis were fighting together in the US. If that happened now (and it wouldn't), it would probably be celebrated as "progress towards reconciliation."

Idlemind: I don't care if the Republicans never let Reyes see a word. It still does not excuse the kind of ignorance on a fundamental issue, completely germane to our nation's largest issues and to what he had to vote on...which a half hour on Wikipedia would have fixed. Heck, reading the newspaper would have fixed. If you excuse this, then you are just the dumb kind of sheople that Reyes was most worried about pleasing.

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Look it's complicated. For one thing, Saddam was Sunni and he would have nothing to do with al-Qaeda. The mnemonic I use is that Saudis were responsible for 911 and they are Sunni and al-Qaeda got blamed for 911 (does anyone remember when the trial was ?) so that makes al-Qaeda Sunni.
(end snark)

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Who will rid us of these idiots? he asked absolutely rhetorically

It's amazing how much ignorance you can find even at the highest levels of our government. Well... at least with Dubya at the helm. These guys thrive on ignorance. It's their fuel.

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The congress has been historically inept, self-marginalized, and incompetent when put in charge of anything
To be fair, I know there are Hutus and Tutsis and Rwanda, but to take a specific person, like Paul Kigame, and ask if they're Hutu or Tutsi, I would have no idea.

A lot of racism and hate sparked on this blog. But you highlight some great points. Nice post.

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It's amazing how much ignorance you can find even at the highest levels of our government. Well... at least with Dubya at the helm. These guys thrive on ignorance. It's their fuel.

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Thanks. Issue is pretty complicated.

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This is extremely sad. I knew the government was bad...but this bad?!?! Geez.

These people are so incompetent.

Guys, this is almost 2 years old LoL
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thanks.

sex shop

sex shop

Thanks Best Regards
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