Marxism

That quote is inscribed in large letters in the main hall of the Humboldt University in Berlin.

They quote DailyKos in Berlin?

Yes, gotta love those aphorisms. Like:

"The highest point reached by contemplative materialism, that is, materialism which does not comprehend sensuousness as practical activity, is contemplation of single individuals and of civil society."

That is so true.

Shit, man, it's not all good aphorisms, but he wrote plenty.

Actually, Matt, your Marx quote reminds me of another one:

The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

My guess is, that was Rumsfeld, but I of course don't know.

My favorite Marx aphorism is thus:
"The only antidote to mental suffering is physical pain."

I believe it explains the urge to bash one's head against a wall while reading the Corner.

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

This one's so catchy that a couple of surveys have shown that about a third of Americans believe it's in the U.S. Constitution. Another third aren't sure.

This one's so catchy that a couple of surveys have shown that about a third of Americans believe it's in the U.S. Constitution. Another third aren't sure.

Really? What surveys?

Does this mean it's now part of the living Constitution (serious here).

"I would never belong to a club that would have me as a member" is one of my favorites.

Everytime someone links to the MIA an angel gets new wings.

Really? What surveys?

I couldn't find the survey data quickly, but here's one presumably reputable source: Columbia Law School, from 2002 (this is to the press release, with links to the survey data on the sidebar). There are references to a 1986/1987 Hearst poll that puts the number at 45%, but I can't dig up any details about it; this one may be apocryphal, I suppose.

"What did all those Marx readers deliver the country? Nixon. Reagan. Bush. Bush II. Not to mention the DeLays, the Scalias, and the long national nightmare that is just now being stemmed.

That's not a knock on people who've been fighting the good fight. Just on those who think the intellectual circle jerks of the 60s are superior to what we're building today."

I admit it. I read the Third Brumaire in 1973 and caused it all.

The compassion and magnanimity of you millenials is astonishing. Should have made the black wall into a circle instead so you kids could joke about the boomer toilet bowl.

My favorite Commie quotes:

"The question, as always, is 'Who? Whom?'" - Lenin

"You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you." - Trotsky

- "Quantity has a quality all its own?" - Stalin

Wow, is that a lot of stupid. Poor Max.

They quote DailyKos in Berlin?

Hardy-fucking-har. You of all people should be the one to point out someone else's poorly edited comments.

Murray Kempton, who is always fun to read, liked to say that Marx is always fun to read but that Marxists aren't. Me, I like this greatest hit:

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

"What did all those Marx readers deliver the country? Nixon. Reagan. Bush. Bush II. Not to mention the DeLays, the Scalias, and the long national nightmare that is just now being stemmed."

Markos has made Max's point for him. I have encountered this hopeless ignorance on other, ahem, prominent blogs. Somehow it is the New Left, the hippies and Deadheads that caused the Rise of the Right.

Now these same famous bloggers can quote LBJ on losing the South to the Republicans for a generation and know the importance of race in American Partisan politics; know a little a biy about how abortion, feminism, and gay liberation energized the Christian Right; even might have heard of the economic and migrational changes that weakened the union base of the Democratic Party.

Yet still sthe chant is "Chicago 68 Chicago 68 Chicago 68". Humphrey won the union, blue collar and ethnic votes in 1968, and the only traditional part of the Democrats that shifted were white urban professionals, freaked out by the thousands (800 in the week MLK died) of race riots in 1968. The real riot in Chicago in 1968 was in March, and dozens died.

Now I guess we have a new generation of white urban professionals who are uncomfortable talking about class, race, and culture issues, so they just blame the dirty fucking hippies.

No, Markos is obviously horribly unread and ignorant, and probably any real Marxism is beyond his abilities. Really stupid. I guess he could try the works of Kevin Phillips as training wheels in history and politics.

You linked that trash, Matt. And I don't mean the MIA.

Anybody who needs a quick sense of how brilliant and prophetic Marx was should just read the first chapter of the Communist Manifesto, where Marx predicts all the imapcts of globalization, the rise of feminism, and ceaseless technological revolution -- and does this all before 1850! No economist before him, not Smith, not Ricardo, understood just how revolutionary capitalisms impact was going to be and had a better sense of why it was so. Thomas Friedman still writes best-sellers by retailing just a few of the ideas Marx expressed 170 years before in the Manifesto (and in much better prose, of course).

Here's one of the most famous passages:

"The bourgeoisie cannot exist without constantly revolutionising the instruments of production, and thereby the relations of production, and with them the whole relations of society. Conservation of the old modes of production in unaltered form, was, on the contrary, the first condition of existence for all earlier industrial classes. Constant revolutionising of production, uninterrupted disturbance of all social conditions, everlasting uncertainty and agitation distinguish the bourgeois epoch from all earlier ones. All fixed, fast-frozen relations, with their train of ancient and venerable prejudices and opinions, are swept away, all new-formed ones become antiquated before they can ossify. All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned, and man is at last compelled to face with sober senses his real conditions of life, and his relations with his kind."

And anybody who says Marx and Marxism never had any practical political impacts *really* needs a history lesson. I mean, *really* needs one.

And Marx is a lot of fun to read aloud in an Intro to Political Philosophy class. Machiavelli is fun too, in a different way. Both are way better than trudging through, say, Locke.

When people talk about Marxism, I get the impression that they forget who they are talking about. My favorite song ever is a Dillinger Four song called "He's A Shithead" that addresses that. It's about the how much the campus "Marxists" in Minnesota whined when the bus drivers went on strike.

The busdriver's on strike, he had to ride his bike again
I'm so sorry you're pissed about this
He's just a campus communist
You see, sometimes life's not convenient
They saw a chance to take power and they seized it,
Mr. fair-weather revolutionary
Is this your idea of compassion?
I thought one and one and one made revolutions?
If solidarity means nothing now
Then it never really did to you anyhow, dick
He says they're all lazy 'cause he doesn't have a clue
He thinks of the "workers" as just little boys and girls
So when real life hits the fan he will not recognize the stand
And so it's back into his sheltered little world.
Then he moans and he groans 'cause they chose to fight
I hope you freeze on your bike riding home tonight
Understand all of "these people" are someone
Try reading some of the books you're quoting from
Try checking your agenda just for something to do
Because I think you may find that "the man" just might be you

They quote DailyKos in Berlin?

This made my day.

One of the things I liked best about "They quote DailyKos in Berlin?" was the image of that semi-ungrammatical Kos quote inscribed in large letters on an academic building.

"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it."

Fifty or one hundred million dead at the hands of Marxists later, perhaps it's time to note that Marx should have understood the world a little better before he started trying to change it.

Exactly what I was thinking, Neil.

I'm not masochist enough to try to say anything nice about Marxism on a message board. But that fact is, all of you-- every last one-- thinks and talks in a way that is fundamentally Marxist. So does David Horowitz and Pat Robertson and Rush Limbaugh. The idea of the dialectic has penetrated everything we talk about. It's like Freud. People talk about his "debunking" or how he's out of fashion. But his ideas changed the fundamental way in which we order and understand the world. You can't remove Freudian, or Marxist, thought from 21st century life because they have become integral to our intellectual life. (And, incidentally, thinking of Marxism as a movement to be embraced or combatted is itself Marxist.) The very fact that you can read a political blog is a function of the Marxist moment.

I prefer Ghandi's version of the concept:

"I am not built for academic writings. Action is my domain."

Marx had extremely quotable quotes in just about everything he wrote. The problem with the 11th Thesis on Feuerbach was that Marx spent most of his own adult life sitting in the British Library working on his interpretations. I don't see why interpretation and political action have to be dichotomized in this way at all. Anybody who is engaged in political action--especially the kind of politics contemplated by Marx--has to be actively involved in interpretation and has to be very good at it if he or she hopes to be successful. In the same way, a lot of effective thinkers and writers don't have the kind of personalities that are very good for political organizations. If somebody's best contribution comes while they're at their keyboards, I don't see a reason to castigate them for not sitting through meetings, deliberating strategies, or manning the phones. It's not like intellectual types are over-valued in our society and have to be deflated anyway. If you want to take somebody down a notch, take on Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie not Joan Didion or Stanley Aronowitz.

"Who, whom?" sounds even better in Russian: кто кого, Kto Kogo, which can be "who, whom," or "who does what to whom," or "who is doing whom," etc.

Exactly, Ric. It seems that something people from all political stripes have in common is making empty attacks on this vaguely defined cadre of "intellectuals."

I admit to being no Marx expert, and I do not doubt that my thinking has been shaped by Marx's thinking (as many of the people I have read and listened to were influenced by Marx in different ways). BUT . . . I think it would be easy to exagerate his influence.

Among other things, a lot of what he said and what people have taken from him seems almost eschatological, rooted in Christian religious traditions. Which is great, and it resonates, but is that really all to be attributed to Marx?

"Fifty or one hundred million dead at the hands of Marxists later, perhaps it's time to note that Marx should have understood the world a little better before he started trying to change it."

Steve, change Marx for Christ and try to defend it.

I've heard it said that Marx was a terrible economist but almost an Old Testament prophet as a sociologist. Passion, a clear eye, and bile.

Much of the mass carnage in the Soviet Union (spoken about above) occurred after the disaster of WWI. I don't think I am totally stupid in thinking that the war had something to do with its aftermath in Russia and the new USSR.

Marx and Marxists didn't cause that war. Perhaps those that did should have a wee bit of the blame for its consequences splash upon them.

Also, WWI just might have had something to do with the rise of Hitler. He was certainly happy to blame his country's problems on Marxists and Jews - none of whom were responsible for his rise to power and subsequent bloodshed.

Now, I am not a Marxist. But, I have to admit that he's lookin' pretty good right about now - especially the parts about "class struggle". I know of a class that could use a little "dictatorship of the proletariat". We may not survive otherwise.

I have no conceivable dog in this fight, but... "wonk rather than activist liberal bloggers" = "Marx-quoting philosophers"? Either = "the 60s?" Any of those three = the cause of subsequent Republican victories? Color me baffled as to what's supposed to tie any of these four things together. Matt, I congratulate you on your time-travel prowess that allows you to have ruined leftism way back in the 60s with your intellectualism.

Color me baffled as to what's supposed to tie any of these four things together.

They don't know either.

I've never liked Markos. I swore off Gilliard because he couldn't keep his pet harpy away from the keyboard but all the bad faith, poor reading comprehension and the like that produced this outburst were visiblie in tics before I left.

Marx was mentioned in a laundry list of philosophers in a piece that was largely about how pointless a "netroots" movement is that isn't concerned with results outside of electing democrats. So they lift a word, ignore everything else in a fit of red-baiting, and for people who don't like Marx act as the most shameless asslicking commissars you have ever seen. Then in a final fit of irony their brainless followers can't be bothered to read the original work and start droning on about hippies and the 60's.

The world is interpretation. To reinterpret it is to change the world.

Since neo-cons were originally the offspring of Herbert Marcuse and his brand of Trotskyism, why didn't the destructive heritage of Marx adhere to them?

I'm on the left (at least in the mainstream American usage of that word) and I've read some Marx, Trotsky, Luxemburg and Lukács, etc. However, I read those out of historical curiosity and let me say it is a damn good thing that the left no longer is looking to them for any sort of advice.

Erm Bryan, I don't think it's about reading books and then putting what one read into practice and the scariness you mention is not exclusive to Marxist writings - try to envision Plato or Nietzsche being put practice. Neither is it about confining those writings to the dusty shelves of the history of ideas. It's about refining one's means of analysis and broadening the range of available interpretations of the world.

"(And, incidentally, thinking of Marxism as a movement to be embraced or combatted is itself Marxist.)"

Maybe, but it's not Marx: he thought he had the truth, and that history was inevitably going to go the way he said it would. You could embrace or combat it, but it wasn't going to change what would happen to the world, although it might change what happened to you.

"Among other things, a lot of what he said and what people have taken from him seems almost eschatological, rooted in Christian religious traditions."

You should check out Alasdair MacIntyre. He tries to be a Marxist Christian. There are also some writings of John Paul II that I read to the class during the Marxism lectures and then ask them to guess who wrote them. They're surprised at how much like a Marxist he sounds when he talks about alienation and consumerism.

When the train of history goes round the bend, the intellectuals are the first to fall off.--Marx

"The idea of the dialectic has penetrated everything we talk about."

We shouldn't forget that the dialectic (even though Marx changed and popularized it) is originally a Hegelian concept, not something that Marx created.

"No, Markos is obviously horribly unread and ignorant, and probably any real Marxism is beyond his abilities. Really stupid. I guess he could try the works of Kevin Phillips as training wheels in history and politics."

I agree with that. I'm not even sure that Kevin Phillips is within his grasp, much less something like Sheri Berman's The Primacy of Politics.

More globally, it's just seems like most of the "big-time" bloggers just mindlessly promote a grab-bag of mushy liberal-esque policies - policies that generally form no coherent whole, are semi-randomly generated and have no clear priority amongst the various policies (gay marriage, for example, is just as important to these schmucks as strengthening unions).

Like others said, they make decent mindless commissars, but they're also resistant to being funneled in the right directions by actually serious people, so their overall effectiveness beyond bashing Bush and whipping up support at election time is largely random political noise.

So the problem with the sixties is that people thought too much and did not actually do anything? That's hilarious! The sixties were full of political activity on all levels - demonstrations and riots, alternative media, experiments in alternative economic and living arrangements, reform of existing institutions, e.g., the University, the Dem Primary process. The problem with the 60's is that they hadn't thought it through. They were too much like Kos; believing that only acts mattered, not ideas. What led the SDS into destructive radicalism? Letting the Soviet-alligned commies in - becoming "anti-anti-communist" in their own phrase. Why did they do this? Because the commies were hard-working, funded, and well-organized - from an "activist" viewpoint, it was the right decision, but it was disastrous because of what it did to the movement intellectually.

As for Marxism, I think there are fundamental problems with it, but they are problems we must grapple with, because the problems Marx spoke of are mostly with us still. One thing, though, is that Marx saw the revolution he wrote about in the Manifesto occur almost immediately and fail - starting in 1848 - for reasons not unlike the failure of the sixties. The radicals could seize power, but did not have solid ideas and agreement on what to do with it, so they lost it. Marx went back to the drawing board to make his ideas more rigorous. I think where he went is fundamentally wrong, but discussing that seriously exceeds the available bandwidth of a blog comment.

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