The Question of the Day

Jim Webb is really one of the most exciting things to happen to our politics recently; the personification of potentially worthy electoral trends who's managed to pull it off not by embracing militarism but by showing that good sense in national security policy can be fused to personality and cultural attributes other than, say, mine. And so it's good to see him in particular asking the Secretary of State the question of the day: "Is it the position of this administration that it possesses the authority to take unilateral action against Iran in the absence of a direct threat without congressional approval?" Rice's reply:

Senator, I'm really loathe to get into questions of the president's authorities without a rather more clear understanding of what we are actually talking about. So let me answer you, in fact, in writing. I think that would be the best thing to do.

Now, back in the real world, it's clear that this particular administration has never acknowledged any limits to presidential authority. It's also worth saying that most recent administrations have claimed the authority to launch military actions without specific congressional authorization, so a presidential assertion of power in this regard would be less unusual than some of the other claims it's made. What's more, in light of yesterday's consulate attack I think it's pretty clear that Bush feels free to wade into whatever kind of gray areas he likes. Still, it's crucial to get the administration on record here so people can begin considering countermeasures.

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the AUMF is going to be their authorization.

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they'll simply claim Iran and Syria are aiding the organization that pulled-off 9/11, al-Q.

Posted by: cleek on January 12, 2007 10:16 AM

"It's also worth saying that most recent administrations have claimed the authority to launch military actions without specific congressional authorization"

Yup. The de facto standard is that you only need authorization if you're sending troops for more than a few weeks.

We just staged a regime change in Somalia, for example, without any Congressional input.

If Congress wants to have a say in an Iran bombing, they'd have to proscribe it in advance, a la the Boland Amendment. And somehow, I don't think the votes are there, especially considering the near certainty of having to override a veto.

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Posted by: Matt's Mom on January 12, 2007 10:28 AM

I think it's more likely they'll rely upon the Iraq AUMF, not the Afghanistan one.

(a) Authorization.--The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to-- (1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq"

If one were dishonest enough, one could argue that defending the US "the threat posed by Iraq" isn't the same thing as fighting the government of Iraq, and that the AUMF allows Bush to fight a war against anything or anyone who adds to any threatening forces that are related to Iraq. This would involve ignoring all the "whereas"es that came before the authorization paragraph, but I wouldn't put that past the John Yoos of the world.

Posted by: JP on January 12, 2007 10:30 AM

Why does no one talk about Jim Webb for President? (Or VP?) The guy's good.

Posted by: Ryan on January 12, 2007 10:31 AM

Yes, I think cleek has it right. That's why the administration keeps invoking al-Qaeda: in Iraq, in Somalia, everywhere. They may or may not believe their own statements, but making them allows them to continue to claim they are operating under the purview of the AUMF.

Posted by: Dan Kervick on January 12, 2007 10:34 AM

I'm inclined to agree with Mark Schmitt's take on Webb, that he's likely to end up being something like Bob Kerrey - "idiosyncratic, impulsive, non-ideological"

It so happens that his present impulses are a perfect fit for the present moment. In the long run, though, who knows. I don't think he'll turn back into a Republican or anything, just that he wouldn't be my ideal presidential candidate. A lot can happen between now and 2012.

Posted by: JP on January 12, 2007 10:41 AM

I think it's more likely they'll rely upon the Iraq AUMF, not the Afghanistan one.

maybe.

This would involve ignoring all the "whereas"es that came before the authorization paragraph, but I wouldn't put that past the John Yoos of the world.

at least we agree that however they argue it, they'll do it in bad faith. :)

Posted by: cleek on January 12, 2007 10:42 AM

"What limits on Presidential authority do you recognize, if any?" would be a badass question for a Democratic Senator to ask. =)

Posted by: Drew Miller on January 12, 2007 10:51 AM

A friend of mine just got through interviewing Webb at a celebration of Vietnam's accession to the WTO. Apparently Webb addressed the crowd IN VIETNAMESE.

Why can't we have more guys like this? I'm not crazy about his insistence that South Vietnam could've defended itself if Congress hadn't stabbed it in the back, but overall, he's a real character. Of course, that kind of thinking is what got us McCain.

Posted by: brooksfoe on January 12, 2007 10:54 AM

I don't want to begin to speculate as to what this administration would rely on to invade Iran and/or Syria, but it seems clear that the Iraq AUMF does not extend to Iran or Syria. The initial, rejected version of the Iraq AUMF ("Further Resolution on Iraq" S.J.Res. 45, 107th Cong. 2d Session) contained the following language:

The President is authorized to use all means that he determines to be appropriate, including force, in order to enforce the United Nations Security Council Resolutions referenced above, defend the national security interests of the United States against the threat posed by Iraq , and restore international peace and security in the region.

This language was rejected by many in Congress (although no vote was taken) precisely becuase it could be construed to include auhtorization of force on Iran, Syria, etc. . . In its place, the narrower language focusing only on Iraq was agreed to.

Nevertheless, I'm sure they have a team of lawyers working on the written response to Webb that disagree with me.

Posted by: Dungheap on January 12, 2007 10:56 AM

Re: "Why does no one talk about Jim Webb for President? (Or VP?) The guy's good."

Well, he just started in the Senate. Plus, he'll be a good asset there, appearing prominently on talk shows, etc.

He was on PBS right after Bush's speech, and seemed alright. One of the things he opposed most strenuously was increasing reconstruction aid to Iraq. Outside of fears that the money will disappear down a black hole of corruption, I can't say that is one of the things I would come out against.

Posted by: Jim W on January 12, 2007 10:59 AM

The counterargument to that, Dungheap, is that legislative history is meaningless. Most conservative lawyers these days believe that it's wrong to pay any attention to legislative history - that, in fact, it's undemocratic to do so.

Posted by: JP on January 12, 2007 11:17 AM

Jim W -- One of the things he opposed most strenuously was increasing reconstruction aid to Iraq. Outside of fears that the money will disappear down a black hole of corruption, I can't say that is one of the things I would come out against.

I get what you're saying here... but when it comes to reconstruction aid, the fears that this money will disappear down a black hole of corruption are perhaps the single most important issue. Not to mention that security concerns continue to make it extremely difficult to do any construction work in much of the country. The money that DOESN'T disappear down a black hole is spent diverting personnel from trouble zones to protect the contractors.

Posted by: LaFollette Progressive on January 12, 2007 11:25 AM

JP - I understand the counterargument that legislatiave history should not trump clear and unambiguous statuory language (if any exists, I haven't seen it), but to say legislative history is completely meaningless is nonsense. But, I wouldn't be suprised if the administration's lawyers make that argument. They've peddled plenty of nonsense to date.

Posted by: Dungheap on January 12, 2007 11:29 AM

Hey dude, you're not arguing with me.

Posted by: JP on January 12, 2007 11:34 AM

JP - I dig. I guess we'll wait and see what the Administration comes up with in its written response to Webb -- if it isn't classified.

Posted by: Dungheap on January 12, 2007 11:38 AM

I've been calling for the Democrats to groom Webb for 08 since the day after the midterms. So far, I think he's got exactly what the Dems need. He's fresh, he projects strength and exudes an aura of common sense.

I'm also thinking that Tester, although he hasn't been as visible so far, might make a good pair-up for the ticket for pretty much the same reasons and because he's got the common man quality going for him.

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Posted by: Phil on January 12, 2007 01:41 PM

[i]Senator, I'm really loathe to get into questions ...[i]

I loathe the fact that she is loath to get into questions.

Posted by: Mervis on January 12, 2007 01:59 PM

"Why does no one talk about Jim Webb for President? (Or VP?) The guy's good."

There's a good chance that Webb is on the long, if not short, list of certain candidate's VP possibilities. I think the big question would be his discipline and campaigning ability. He has a tendency to speak off the cuff and he doesn't exactly love up mixing it up with crowds. Those problems aside, he'd make a good choice for Edwards, his fellow populist.

Posted by: david mizner on January 12, 2007 02:15 PM

There WAS no consulate attack.

What was raided was in the process of becoming one, but was not yet, so it doesn't have quite the doomsday value that attacking an Iranian consulate would have. It's somewhat of technical thing but it's the kind of thing that can't quite provoke a war.

Posted by: MNPundit on January 12, 2007 07:56 PM

Well, I'd imagine that depends on what becomes of the six detainees.

But Iran would have to be amazingly stupid to be baited into an outright attack at this point. And I've seen no evidence that they're stupid.

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