Ah, Civility

Liberal bloggers sure are vile. Contrast their rantings to the civil debate hosted on the front page of RedState here Hilariously, that post actually comes with a specific request to "keep it clean" even though the poster already started it on a non-clean theme. One commenter is outraged about the dirty, dirty liberal bloggers. Then comes this paragon of civility which the proprietor, absurdly, endorses as "clean."

2/9/07 4:53PM del.icio.us this incoming links

Comments

Are you really going to use the good by comparison routine?

Can you just admit that there are plenty of Democrats who have a legitimate interest in seeing Amanda not work for a President of the United States?

Posted by: a on February 9, 2007 05:01 PM

Which Republican Presidential candidate hired this "haystack" guy, again? Perhaps I missed that part.

Posted by: Al on February 9, 2007 05:13 PM

I used to work with a guy who couldn't make it through a sentence without cussing. Irrelevant, you say? You're right. Now, about your post ...

Posted by: ostap on February 9, 2007 05:21 PM

What is this wingnut obsession with Hillary supposedly having fat legs? I've never gotten that.

Posted by: C.L. on February 9, 2007 05:32 PM

10 yard penalty on Yglesias for nutpicking.

Posted by: Pooh on February 9, 2007 06:08 PM

What this is, is not so much proof that rightie bloggers & commentors can be uncivil (they can), that their discussions often start out on a not terribly high plane, then Descend With A Facility from that not terribly high plane (they do), or that they are hypnotized, hypnotized I tell you, by Hillary Clinton. (They are: she's been nowhere near the Oval Office for the better part of a decade, but they show no signs as yet of being able to shake off her spell.) No, what this really proves is that rightie bloggers and commentors are bores. That "two small breasts and two fat (or large) thighs and two left wings" apercu was old in 1992, which was fourteen years ago. Even then it was (let's confess) kind of a lame joke, with the wear of the shop already visible in its nap. The personal animus which both Clintons aroused kept in circulation for the next eight years, but even so it should have been retired when Bill Clinton left office. It was positively geriatric by then; it was afflicted with Altzheimer's, like Ronald Reagan; the days of its vendability were behind it.

There's a lefty plaint,intensely familiar to me, that runs as follows: "Ahhhh, the right-wingers, they got nothing; personal smears and poo-flinging and panty-sniffing, that's all they're about; no policy no good governance no notion of when to back out of a bad situation; base opprobrium is the name of their game, than which they have no other. That, and their jokes are Jurassic." I've been reading this for years, with a couple of reservations; for one thing, it's always seemed to me that if you do in fact excel at poo-flinging and panty-sniffing and other modes of symbolism, then you do in fact have something, tho' your possessions perhaps are not of the sort which arouse envy. But today I've begun to wonder whether the "right-wingers got nothing but a playbook full of insults and the playbook is outdated" canard may not be one of those cliches which gain the status of cliches because the are accurate.

If the righties, bloggers or commentors, had anything to say worth paying attention to, would they, at this point, still be interested in recycling fourteen-year-old jokes? Let's say that a conservative with a cell-phone cam comes across this craptastic fat legs-small breasts-left wings example of signage, and finds that he just can't resist but that he must take a picture of it and send the picture to his favorite blog--what force under heaven can it be that drives the blogger to post the danged thing? If I were a rightster this kind of stuff would embarrass me in a way that no Marcotte of McEwen deployment of profanity has the power to do. And why? Because it is vulgar, because it is redolent of the guy who never knows when to leave a party but has to hang on into the wee small hours, growing steadily more and more fumous and stale, regaling a gradually diminishing audience with stories and jokes which were hawter than hawt when he was in high school (at least he imagines they were), imagining that he is wowing the crowd, when the crowd in question consists of the poor mooks who got too drunk to drive home and who can't find the ride that would ferry them out of his zone. That guy is full of sad, and it's more than once that he's leant over me transversely and offloaded a faceful of liquor-and-cigarette effluvium straight into my waiting nostrils, harboring, admittedly, no intention more nefarious than that of disburdening himself of his latest quip (which dates back to the days when Zeppelin was king).

(Was I myself too drunk at that point to walk home, and thus, for the duration, trapped? Yes, Gentle Reader, I admit that I was.)

That guy is a bore. He is vulgar and offensive not because he's profane (though he can be), or because he holds people who have never done him any harm up to ridicule (though he does), or because he doesn't know the difference between disrespect and wit (though he doesn't), or because he thinks practical jokes are funny or because he fancies that he is the fourth, unsung Stooge or because he's got a deep, personal relationship with Jesus that he wants too tell you all about once he's gotten illuminated enough to forget all the other material in his budget. That guy is vulgar because he is dull. It is dullness, not profanity, which makes up the greater part of vulgarity. It's not fair, but one may be profane and still be witty: one may even be profane and still be correct. If one manages to do this one's offensiveness diminishes. But if one is a bore and if one is proud of being a bore, the points of one's weapons will be blunted perforce. A fondness for profanity may be a misfortune, but a bent toward dullness can be a disaster.

Posted by: bekabot on February 9, 2007 06:30 PM

Why do I get the feeling that you were planning to write this post for days, but were holding off until you actually found something to use? As it is, this is pretty weak, and what you call an endorsement sounds more like a warning to me.

Posted by: Mario on February 9, 2007 07:14 PM

Yea, those righties can really be uncivil. Not all, but seemibly allot of them are just plain nasty. So what? Many people already agree with that. What does that have to do with how liberal bloggers should behave?

Posted by: Jay J. on February 9, 2007 07:25 PM

It has an awful lot to do with how we should view disingenuous squawking from the other side.

Posted by: Steve on February 9, 2007 07:34 PM

Ok, so maybe it has allot to do with how we should view the disingenuous squaking from the other side. Ok.

Why can't we walk and chew gum at the same time?

Seriosuly, I haven't been able to get anyone who seems to be to the left of me to answer this:

Was Bill Clinton wrong in this Sitsa Soljah moment? If right wingers had told him to condemn her, should he have refrained?

Posted by: Jay J. on February 9, 2007 07:39 PM

Yes, of course he should have refrained. I think you've chosen a terrible analogy, though.

Posted by: Steve on February 9, 2007 08:27 PM

Steve,

I think your answer underscores some serious ideological and/or philosophical difference between us. I think it will probably prove futile to try to weigh the value of our respective views however. No offense, but I'm just basing on prior expericen on this blog and others like it.

Suffice it to say, i don't think Clinton should have refrained, and I know that Amanda Marcotte's weren't as bad and Sis Sol who talked of murdering and doing violence to non-black people. Nevertheless I think there is a crtical level of similarity to make the comparison. Once again, different strokes for different folks.

The only thing we may be able to reason about at this point is why Edwards couldn't have fired Marcotte (cuz she was the one with the most...uhh...inflammatory commets) and kept ..."shakes" sicne she seems to have been genuienly unlucky here. Then he could have taken a pot-shot at the likes of Donahue and Malkin.

That may have been to balsy, and it wouldn't seem to be following Donahue's orders.

Seems like we can do both at the same time.

Posted by: Jay J. on February 9, 2007 08:41 PM

Why do I get the feeling that you were planning to write this post for days, but were holding off until you actually found something to use?

I am a ruminator, and the opinions I hold are considered opinions.

As it is, this is pretty weak,

I'd call it subjective. That doesn't mean it's false.

and what you call an endorsement sounds more like a warning to me.

I didn't call anything an endorsement, but you're right, it was intended as a warning. The question is what kind.

Posted by: bekabot on February 9, 2007 08:56 PM

The most interesting thing about the thread is the link to the picture of Jimmy Carter as an evil Jedi.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=24341_Wednesday_Afternoon_Krazy_Kaptions!#comments

Posted by: David Tomlin on February 9, 2007 11:40 PM

C.L. -- Wingnuts are misogynist asstards who see women exclusively as sexual objects and servants. The jokes about Senator Clinton which you reference are part of that.

Posted by: Kimmitt on February 10, 2007 02:24 PM

While juvenile, insulting Hillary Clinton in no way equates to the overtly bigoted comments directed at millions of Catholics by Marcotte.

Is Mr. Yglesias too obtuse to see the obvious difference, or is he simply being disingenuous?

Posted by: USA Pat on February 11, 2007 06:17 PM

"C.L. -- Wingnuts are misogynist asstards who see women exclusively as sexual objects and servants. The jokes about Senator Clinton which you reference are part of that."

Kimmitt - thanks for the lesson on civil discourse in liberal blog comment threads. I'm sure this will teach a lesson to the "wingnuts" who allow their comment threads to degenerate into vitriolic name-calling.

Posted by: mike on February 12, 2007 09:36 AM

¿¡Civility!?

"Someone should've belted that chinless bitch a long time ago."

Lee Rodgers, señoras y caballerros, the height of weengnutbar civility.

so.

Posted by: ¡El Gato Negro! on February 13, 2007 12:29 AM

If the right wing expects civility as they dismantle democracy, undermine the Constitution, and ignore the rule of law, they are out of their mind, (the one they conform to so religiously without a hint of spirituality.)

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