Cold War Kids

Kevin Drum cites Paul Kennedy writing about the foolishness of Cold War nostalgia. The part about the risk of total nuclear annihilation really ought to be obvious. But this matters, too:

t is hard to explain to a younger generation that such delightful countries as Greece, Spain, Portugal, Chile, Brazil, South Africa, Poland and Czechoslovakia (to name only a few) were run in those days by fascist generals, avowed racists or one-party totalitarian regimes. I am ancient enough to remember the long list of countries I would not visit for summer holidays; old enough to recall how creepy it was to enter Walter Ulbricht's East German prison house of a state via Checkpoint Charlie in the late 1960s. Ugh.

This matters, because I think people sometimes underestimate exactly how horrible it would be in humanitarian terms to return to Cold War-style conditions of global competition between the United States and some other power (presumably China ). People often -- and correctly -- see that the UN Security Council process is often going to be an impediment to certain kinds of humanitarian military ventures and want to just let it all drop. And it's true that this sort of thing can be frustrating. Ultimately, however, a world where the major powers have cordial, mostly cooperative relations with one another is a much, much better world to live in.

2/19/07 10:57AM del.icio.us this incoming links

Comments

Ahh.. the memories.

Driving a road in Malawi that defined the border between Malawi & Mozambique in 1994.

On the Mozambique side, every building was burned out. On the Malawi side every building was a thriving business.

Mozambique had Western backed (anti-communist) rebels that knew precisely where to stop. It wasn't ideology, it wasn't based on ethnicity, it was based on the side of the road you happened to live on.

Get caught on one side of the road and you were dead. Get to the other side of the road and you were safe. It was a MUCH simpler time.

Posted by: Peter on February 19, 2007 11:36 AM

What's so damn infuriating about Gates's nostalgia is the fact that he doesn't acknowledge how US Cold War policy in the Middle East was a crucial factor in creating some of the diplomatic crises we face today.

Posted by: Drew on February 19, 2007 11:43 AM

Jeebus what in idiotic article. Construct a strawman, and then knock it down. Zzzzz.

Gates said he was nostaligic for the lack of complexity during the Cold War. Not for the dictatorships, nuclear arsenals pointed a us, etc.

If I claimed I was nostalgic for Joe DiMaggio's play in center field for the Yankees, would Paul Kennedy be claiming I must be nostalgic for the prohibition on blacks playing baseball?

Posted by: Al on February 19, 2007 12:22 PM

Well, if Iran goes nuclear, and if the U.S. doesn't attack it, a mini-Cold War with Iran is what we'll have.

I'm not arguing for attacking Iran - hot war is usually worse than cold war - but this is a reminder that "containing" Iran will not be a simple, short, or pleasant exercise.

Posted by: Mr. Noah on February 19, 2007 12:45 PM

All that proves is that communism is bad for humanitarian conditions. China still has little civil liberties, and during the Cold War Paris or West Berlin were good places - the important variable is communism.

Posted by: dan on February 19, 2007 12:54 PM

I don't see how the UN Security Council fits in to this post. Does its existance stop Cold Wars from happening? Didn't it exist during the Cold War?

Posted by: Sebastian Holsclaw on February 19, 2007 12:57 PM

In other news, the Cold War Kids are crap, but I'm probably going to pay $10 to see them next week because Tokyo Police Club are not crap.

Posted by: Aaron S. Veenstra on February 19, 2007 01:36 PM

Obviously America became way kewler when it ceased to be a country and became a homeland. Everyone knows that Britney is so much more bitchen than the Stone Roses and the Smiths before them and Pistols before them and the Beatles before them. Likewise you have to understand that Mrs. Clinton is way more kewl than Mrs. Thatcher and that reality television and video games are the highest manifestations of western culture for all time.

Posted by: Linus on February 19, 2007 02:08 PM

Ah, the good old days, when a man who cared deeply in his soul about human freedom could travel to Central America and run a CIA front operation smuggling weapons to military dictators who engaged in torture and summary executions. Things were so much simpler then.

Posted by: LaFollette Progressive on February 19, 2007 02:33 PM

But aren't "...the dictatorships, nuclear arsenals pointed a us, etc." what made the world complex back then? We look back with 20/20 hindsight now and have a simplified view of something that was complex at the time. It wasn't at all clear then what the best way was for the West to deal with the Soviets threat or nationalist communist movements in North Korea or Vietnam. What do you do when the Soviet Union builds a wall across Germany?

Posted by: Kurzleg on February 19, 2007 03:28 PM

In other news, the Cold War Kids are crap, but ... Tokyo Police Club are not crap.

Exactly right.

Posted by: Al on February 19, 2007 04:29 PM

I don't think something akin to the last Cold War would ever happen if the U.S. & China became less friendly.

Posted by: DRR on February 19, 2007 07:52 PM

Dan wrote:
"All that proves is that communism is bad for humanitarian conditions. China still has little civil liberties, and during the Cold War Paris or West Berlin were good places - the important variable is communism."

Sorry dfor the post-wine name-calling, but your comment is idiotic, and inebriated as I am, I would b happy to break a bottle on your nose, well, just because you deserve it.

I am in my mid 30s and I remember way too well what is to live in a dictatorship and a right-wing one to boot.

Imbecile!

Posted by: aipac_man on February 19, 2007 08:03 PM

Here's what Gates actually said. He was responding to Putin's speech criticizing the US, and was essentially saying that Putin had a cold war mentality:

“As an old Cold Warrior, one of yesterday’s speeches almost filled me with nostalgia for a less complex time. Almost,” Gates said. Then, as the audience chuckled, the defense secretary said he has accepted Putin’s invitation to visit Russia.
“We all face many common problems and challenges that must be addressed in partnership with other countries, including Russia,” said Gates. “One Cold War was quite enough.”

To say that Gates expressed nostalgia for the cold way is to take his remarks grossly out of context.

Posted by: Dan Glick on February 20, 2007 12:29 AM

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