Jimmy Carter

well, i'd say that either marty peretz is completely batty or he is motivated by a very strong animus towards rational thought, but in his case, they're the same thing.

James Kirchick's article is a marvel of non-specificity - other than offering up a parade of generalities mixed with snark about "false charges of antisemitism", I was struck by his seemingly willful disregard of, well, y'know, actual instances of said accusations, which even a casual reader of blogosphere commentary (even your own eponymous site) - would be able to find, and remember.

However, it did contain one particular gem worth treasuring:

"Matthew Yglesias, the insufferable enfant terrible of the liberal blogosphere, frequently refers to the “Lobby that Shall Not be Named,” which supposedly suppresses any critique of the Jewish state."

Rare praise, indeed: will you be adding the initials "I.E.T." to your sig as a badge of honor??

There was a time when I disagreed with everything Matt Yglesias had to say. these days though, it's becoming apparent that what I had mistaken as indifference to others was merely a lack of life experience. I don't mean to be condescending. I'm not much older than he is, though the life I've lived is vastly different. It's nice to see someone is thinking things like this through, keep up the good work.

There's surefire a lot of disingenuous creeps in this world.

Helping others isn't about curing diseases, or providing people with water, or teaching them stuff. And it certainly couldn't be about ending political domination or enforced segregation. And it would never be about giving them political autonomy and a contiguous nation-state.

No, the measure of a man's jib is how willing he is to agitate for members of his Nation's Army (almost none coming from his social circles or class) to go abroad to kill and die while overthrowing a dictatorship resulting in a civil war killing more than 200,000 people and displacing millions. Only a man willing to do that is truly a moral person - one who should be our compass.

Oh yeah, and disagreeing with the Republican Party means you're a bigot - if it's on domsetic policy, you're Anti-Catholic, if it's on foreign policy, you're antisemetic - and it doesn't matter that a large chunk of Catholics and a majority of Jews vote for Democrats.

I imagine Jimmy Carter must have thought, given his particular place in the history of Israel and the Arab world, and the stature that comes of being a Nobel Peace Prize winner, that he might be immune to any backlash for taking Israel to task for its contributions to the Palestinians' plight.

I haven't read the book, and I've followed this one from afar. But as far as I can tell, his major error was in not realizing that in 2007, if you want to criticize Israel without a backlash, you've got to choose your words very, very carefully. Otherwise you will be accused of anti-Semitism. Period.

The only exception to this rule is if the speaker is an Israeli Jew, in which case he or she will only be accused of being a wimp or a traitor.

Re James Earl Carter

Mr. Yglesias correctly states that James Earl Carter performs good works in the world, hopefully to make up for his disasterous presidency. Unfortunately, James Earl Carter, perhaps in his zeal to assist the Palestinians who he obviously considers the underdogs in the dispute with Israel, resorts to lying relative to the events that took place in 2000 at Camp David and Taba. His lies have been exposed by Dennis Ross and his recent book has been totally discredited. I don't know whether James Earl Carter is anti-semitic. However, when it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably ain't a zebra.

His lies have been exposed by Dennis Ross and his recent book has been totally discredited.

Dennis Ross has told so many stories now that I don't even know what you are talking about, but Clinton has exactly three narratives on Camp David and Taba that are mutually exclusive.

Matt Y-- I don't suppose there's any evidence for the assertion that James Kirchikgives two shits about what the Carter Center is doing, or about crippling diseases that foreigners have. He's a wannabe pundit with black-and-white views on two or three subjects, and views everyone who disagrees as the Enemy. Par for the course in our discourse today.

Headline Junky-- that dynamic doesn't apply in Israel, which has much more free-wheeling debate, less constrained by pseudo-patriotic political correctness.

Wow, SLC, how about that. "Totally discredited." Well, if you say so, it must be the case.

Look, I consider myself pro-Israel, and I think that Carter's decision to name his book as he did guaranteed that loads of people would (1) not bother to engage his ideas and (2) start with the personal attacks. But you, SLC, have to do better than that to make the specific point you're trying to make. Merely asserting it doesn't establish it.

"Here, Mr. Kirchik. Drink this. It's on the house."

Jimmy Carter wants the people of Africa to sup on baby Jew brains.

Wait, didn't a bunch of Carter Center people resign because they thought Carter was anti-semitic?

I have no idea if Carter is anti-semitic or not (my guess is no), but if he is, the fact that he eradicated Guinea worm disease doesn't change that.

I read some of Kirchicks columns a few years ago. His facts were usually wrong and his opinions idiotic. He's the gay male version of Tammy Bruce.

Perhaps Carter should just mock those afflicted with the disease like Rush or Ann Coulter would do. It would sure be easier.

"Wait, didn't a bunch of Carter Center people resign because they thought Carter was anti-semitic?"

Wait, didn't Carter get tons of applause at Brandeis when he won a debate against "Captain Torture" Dershowitz? Is the Brandeis campus now anti-Semitic?

I think this may be the straw that breaks the AIPAC camel's back. While very few people really liked Carter as a president, they tend to think he's a decent fellow and a good man. I would think on a personal level he's the only president since Eisenhower where Americans actually like the man and believe he is moral.

If Carter was such an anti-Semite, he would not have done what he did at Camp David. You know all those goodies that Israel gets? That was Carter. He gave away the farm when he agreed to our huge military aid packages to Israel.

There's a reason people like the heads of AIPAC and Martin Peretz don't live in Israel: they aren't wanted.

This is an odd conflation of two unrelated issues, Yglesias.

The title of the book is "Peace Not Apartheid," so I can only assume that Carter wrote it looking for a fight. It's sad that the Carter Center's good works might be overshadowed, but Carter's the one who started the controversy here with the loaded and inaccurate title.

Some criticism of the book, including Martin Peretz's comments, might end with charges of anti-semitism. But that conclusion is only reached after considering the criticism and examining the facts. I'd prefer that Peretz come to the conclusion that President Carter is simply rabidly anti-Israel at this point, since "anti-Israel" is a more useful and accurate term than "anti-Semitic." But President Carter wrote an inflammatory and dishonest book. The backlash is well deserved.

I don't know...this comes pretty close to suggesting that if you criticize Carter you are morally responsible for the spread of Guinea Worm Disease. This, in turn, suggests that a person can escape any criticism on any issue if they simply do enough good deeds on the side. How far are you willing to take this?

Of course, one could also point out that if people come to believe that Carter is motivated by a hatred of Jews, this might actually increase the support he receives in certain parts of the world, for instance Western Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia, North Africa, SE Asia, and parts of Latin America. I won't do so, of course, but one could make that point.

Carter's stock with the American publc has gone up. He's raised the consciousness of millions. Week after week the book's a mega bestseller. Yet, every day another Carter Center or Emory U. Jewish loser is either resigning or issuing a "challenge". There isn't one of these over the hill Israeli apologists who've had the slightest impact.

I don't know...this comes pretty close to suggesting that if you criticize Carter you are morally responsible for the spread of Guinea Worm Disease.

No, it doesn't. It suggests that if people spread the patently false claim that Jimmy Carter is anti-semitic, it may hurt the strong reputation of Carter as a moral leader and hence the work of the Carter Center, which includes such things as the fight against Guinea Worm Disease.

If it were true that Jimmy Carter was an anti-semite, you could say it comes close to suggesting that. But it's not, as anyone who has actually paid any attention to (a) Jimmy Carter's history in mediating Middle East peace or (b) the fact that even many Israelis accept the situation in the Occupied Territories is akin to apartheid, knows.

"The title of the book is "Peace Not Apartheid," so I can only assume that Carter wrote it looking for a fight."

What exactly does this mean? We aren't exactly talking about the critiques by more sensible people like Eric Alterman, but smear campaigns by the likes of Jamie Kirchick and Martin Peretz. If you mention anything bad about Israel, you can expect those two guys, AIPAC, Abe Foxman, Dershowitz and others to smear you. Meanwhile, M.J. Rosenberh will actually engage in dialogue, but he's not a name (but should be). I disagree that Israel right now is an apartheid state, but people who know more about apartheid than I do, such as Nobel Peace Prize winners Nelson Mandela and the Archbishop Desmond Tutu, have compared the occupation to apartheid. The demographics on the ground show that if Israel continues to occupy the West Bank and Gaza and also to officially be a Jewish Zionist state, it will become a de facto apartheid state with a Palestinian Arab majority who would be denied the vote. That was one of the reasons for Sharon's Gaza pullout.

Kadima hasn't been living up to its promise of being a centrist alternative to the psychos among the Likud and the impotent members of Labour who could never get the right's support for peace. Israel is the stronger member of the conflict and sets the parameters for the relationship. Even if every Palestinian truly renounces terrorism, if Israel doesn't do something, high Palestinian birth rates will make apartheid a reality. The type of people who smear Carter provide key support for the much-hated Israeli right that has nothing left to offer Israel. Without them, Israelis would probably be experiencing more peace toda and the Palestinians might even be independent. Likud has long had trouble winning elections on their own merits, but instead won by taking advantage of the dread in Israel today that there is no one since Rabin's death that can lead Israel out of the mess it's in (Sharon also lied to younger voters and got their support by telling them he was a peace candidate. He fudged on his past in Lebanon and the youth were too young to realize he was lying). Carter is not a great intellectual, but he if his book does do anything, it will be a warning of what Israel will become if it continues on its current path.

The smear doesn't seem to be working well though. Last I saw, Foreign Affairs had Carter's book as the top seller for books on international affairs.

*M.J. Rosenberg

Re Reality Man

Mr. Reality Mans' claim that James Earl Carter won a debate with Alan Dershowitz at Brandais is an example of the big lie in action. The truth of the matter is that James Earl Carter has steadfastly refused to debate Dershowitz or anybody else about his book. James Earl Carter, by his refusal to debate Dershowitz or anybody else proves that he has chicken feathers where his guts ought to be.

Re Ed Marshall

Mr. Marshalls' claim that Dennis Ross and Bill Clinton have told multiple stories about the events that occurred at Taba and Camp David is totally unsupported. Lets see some examples of these multiple stories. The fact of the matter is that they were there, James Earl Carter was not there and therefore, they are more likely to know about what happened then he is.

Re Tom

I don't know if James Earl Carter is anti-semitic, not being a mind reader. However, I think it is fair to say that he is an Israel basher whose attitude toward that country is far harsher then other countries with far worse records of human rights abuses (such as Saudi Arabia).

Re Elvis Elvisberg

James Earl Carters' book has been discredited in so far as it relates to the events that occurred at Taba and Camp David in 2000. Since he lied about those events, we must assume that he is being less then truthful in his description of others. As a judge will instruct a jury, if a witness is found to have lied about one part of his/her testimony, they may disregard the other parts of that testimony.

I wonder how many Jews were victims of Guinea worm.
My guess: none or close to none.
Carter is an anti-semite of all the diseases he could spend political capital to eradicate, he picked one that does not affect the Jews!

SLC, the fact that Ross and Clinton were there at Camp David also means that they have a greater incentive to lie about it in order to deflect blame to others.

"I think it is fair to say that he is an Israel basher whose attitude toward that country is far harsher then other countries with far worse records of human rights abuses (such as Saudi Arabia)."

So that's why he was behind the Camp David accords? Let me get this straight then. For instance, say Jimmy Carter wrote a book denouncing the House of Saud. Members of the House of Saud could then say he was a Saudi Arabian basher by not focusing on the worse human-rights abuses in, say, North Korea. Does this make any sense?

"Mr. Reality Mans' claim that James Earl Carter won a debate with Alan Dershowitz at Brandais is an example of the big lie in action. The truth of the matter is that James Earl Carter has steadfastly refused to debate Dershowitz or anybody else about his book. James Earl Carter, by his refusal to debate Dershowitz or anybody else proves that he has chicken feathers where his guts ought to be."

A big lie is saying "The Jews stabbed us in the back" or "the Jews lost us the war" or "The newspaper editors who denounce me are all Jews." Considering Dershowitz has problems with the truth, I wouldn't be happy to debate him either. For instance, when quoting from Benny Morris, he wrote Morris wrote something along the lines that Arabs during the Arab-Israeli war left areas of what is now Israel because their leaders told them to, not because they were afraid of being killed. If you look at the actual pages in Morris, however, you will see that Morris said only the first of four phases of moving Arabs out of Palestine worked like that and that the reverse dynamic was true for the third and fourth phase. You can disagree with Morris's account, but it is clear that Dershowitz was being intentionally dishonest and not counting on people checking his sources. I simply forgot that Dershowitz spoke after Carter, not directly debating him back and forth. For you, however, this apparently is grave enough you feel free to use a phrase commonly associated with Nazi propaganda and the most disgusting forms of anti-Semitism. Now, I admit it wasn't exactly a debate, but Carter did speak at Brandeis, was then followed by Dershowitz, but students appeared to prefer what Carter had to say. From Rosenberg:

"My student reporter at Brandeis yesterday tells me that President Carter got a good reception at Brandeis. Despite attempts by rightwingers (including the university President's wife) to label Carter a Jew-hater, some 1700 students showed up to hear the former President and gave him a positive and friendly (even enthusiastic at times) reception. When confronted by a student with a complaint about a particularly ugly passage in the book that seems to endorse terrorism under certain conditions, Carter apologized and said that passage will not appear in future editions.

Despite all the predictions of mass student protests against Carter, virtually no demonstrators showed up. And, best of all, most of the audience left the auditorium before Dershowitz showed up."

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2007/jan/24/brandeis_applauds_carter_walks_out_on_dershowitz

Re William Burns

Dennis Ross is a man who spent 12 years of his life trying under two administrations to achieve a Palestinian State. He doesn't need me to defend him from the likes of Mr. Burns. I would put his reputation for veracity up against the likes of yellow belly Carter. He would win in a walk.

Re Reality Man

1. The appearence of James Earl Carter and Alan Dershowitz was not a debate in any way, shape, form, or regard. In fact, the administration would not even let Dershowitz into the auditorium while yellow belly Carter was speaking. Yellow belly Carter has refused to debate anyone about his book, despite claiming that the object of writing it was to simulate debate.

2. M. J. Rosenberg, whose idiotic writings appear in the Jerusalem Post and the Israel Insider has all the credibility of Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky, who I suspect are heros of Mr. Reality Man.

3. Benny Morris, like the late Israel Shahak, is an anti-Zionist resident of Israel and has no credibility. If Dershowitz even quoted such a person, it reflects poorly on him.

4. Comparing democratic Israel with Totalitarian one party states like North Korea and Saudi Arabia shows Mr. Reality Mans' true colors and is nothing more then a blood libel, no different than the left wings' characterization of Israeli prime ministers as road company Hitlers.

I wonder how old SLC is? I'm guessing twelve.

3. Benny Morris, like the late Israel Shahak, is an anti-Zionist resident of Israel and has no credibility. If Dershowitz even quoted such a person, it reflects poorly on him.

You are out of your mind, loopy, fucking crazy, you are joking, or you don't have any idea what you are talking about.

You are out of your mind, loopy, fucking crazy, you are joking

At first I thought he was a joke troll. And I admit that may still be a possibility. But his level of bile and ignorance, so high that you rarely see them in anyone with a mental age above twelve, are hard to fake effectively.

Wait, didn't a bunch of Carter Center people resign because they thought Carter was anti-semitic? (Mr Noah)

They resigned to protest the book. Like Peretz, they love Israel too much to recognize Israel's crimes against the Palestinians and instead attribute anti-semitism to anyone like Carter who does recognize these crimes.

Resigned makes it sound like they had jobs. They had titles because they donated money to the Carter Center.

1. The appearence of James Earl Carter and Alan Dershowitz was not a debate in any way, shape, form, or regard. In fact, the administration would not even let Dershowitz into the auditorium while yellow belly Carter was speaking. Yellow belly Carter has refused to debate anyone about his book, despite claiming that the object of writing it was to simulate debate.

Except the smears from the likes of Dershowitz hasn't been stimulating debate. Would you really want to debate Ann Coulter or Michael Moore? Personally, I would have debated him, but when you have to deal with smears instead of an actual argument, it gets tiring. Carter is also a notoriously bad debater (look at his implosions vs. Reagen), but that does not make him an anti-Semite.

2. M. J. Rosenberg, whose idiotic writings appear in the Jerusalem Post and the Israel Insider has all the credibility of Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky, who I suspect are heros of Mr. Reality Man.

I find Chomsky to be an idiot, except for his linguistic research. I've only seen Finklestein cited in sources talking about different positions that have been repeated a lot. I don't waste my time reading books by community college professors. You seem to like to box people you don't know into little categories that make them easier for you to manage because that way you can avoid debate the actual issues.

From Wikipedia on the Jerusalem Post:

"Until 1989 the Jerusalem Post supported the Israeli Labor Party and had a liberal or left of center political orientation. In 1989 it was purchased by Hollinger Inc. Under the control of Canadian conservative newspaper magnate Conrad Black the paper became supportive of the Likud. A number of journalists resigned from the Post after Black's takeover and founded the left-wing weekly Jerusalem Report, which eventually was sold to the Post. On November 16, 2004, Hollinger sold the paper to Mirkaei Tikshoret Ltd., a Tel Aviv-based publisher of Israeli newspapers. CanWest Global Communications, Canada's biggest media concern, had announced an agreement to take a 50 percent stake in the Jerusalem Post after Mirkaei bought the property, but the Mirkaei pulled out of the deal. CanWest sued in court, but lost.

Currently, the Jerusalem Post is viewed as having a moderate right of center slant on news coverage, although left-wing columns are often featured on the editorial pages. It espouses economic positions close to those of neoliberalism: tight fiscal control on public spending, curbing of welfare, cutting taxes, and anti-union monopoly legislation, among others. The paper competes with the left of center Haaretz newspaper, which began publishing an English language edition in the 1990s as an insert to the International Herald Tribune."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Post

Not exactly PLO propaganda, is it?

From M. J. Rosenberg's bio at TPMCafe:

"M.J. Rosenberg works in Washington supporting US efforts to advance an Israeli-Palestinian agreement. Previously, he worked on Capitol Hill for various Democratic members of the House and Senate for 15 years. He was also a Clinton political appointee at USAID. In the early 1980s, he was editor of AIPACs weekly newsletter Near East Report. After the signing of the Oslo Accords, Rosenberg broke with the AIPAC position and became a strong advocate of the "two-state solution" to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict."

Not exactly an anti-Zionist. Hell, the guy was even in AIPAC!

3. Benny Morris, like the late Israel Shahak, is an anti-Zionist resident of Israel and has no credibility. If Dershowitz even quoted such a person, it reflects poorly on him.

I wasn't exactly using Morris as an example of a good scholar. Once again, I'm not exactly an expert on his work. However, Dershowitz did quote him selectively to back up his own argument when the actual passage Morris wrote contradicts him. That shows Dershowitz to be dishonest - as if we needed more proof - and to insult the intelligence of his readers.

4. Comparing democratic Israel with Totalitarian one party states like North Korea and Saudi Arabia shows Mr. Reality Mans' true colors and is nothing more then a blood libel, no different than the left wings' characterization of Israeli prime ministers as road company Hitlers.
Posted by: SLC on

Ummm, I actually didn't compare Israel to North Korea and Saudi Arabia. I was showing how a certain argument doesn't have legs. Your mischaracterization of my arguments is closer to libel. My argument here was about separation between levels of oppression. If a writer critiques any state that is not one of the major totalitarian states left - North Korea, Sudan, Burma, Togo - somebody can always say "Why are you wasting your time criticizing me instead of criticizing Kim Jong-Il?" For instance, a member of the House of Saud could say this because Saudi Arabia is a freer state than North Korea, yet the argument would still be hogwash. Such an argument does not actually diminishes one's guilt, but seeks to deflect one's blame onto someone more guilty. You need to brush up on reading comprehension.

Really, have you forgotten your medication? You are part of the problem. You have not actually engaged a single idea that was presented by anyone on this forum. You have shown no ability to actually read what other people write and understand it, but instead choose to misread what other people write so that you can justify your own anger. You're like a crazy freshman pseudo-feminist at Wesleyan who protests the term "e-mail" for somehow being sexist. You seem to define credibility with believing exactly what you believe. You're immaturity just sweats out of your posts. How have you not yet mastered reading comprehension? I guess because you don't want to engage people, but instead find justification for your own anger at the world.

Dershowitz is a man of great good and he would do no evil to a fellow human being. His life is dedicated to the good of mankind.

We Dershowitz Catholic, he would be a saint!!

By the same logic, Sam Brownback shouldn't be criticized for his anti-abortion, anti-government stands because he works on Darfur? Or do humanitarian endeavours only exonerate liberals from responsibility of their political stands?

Writing a book about Israel with the word "apartheid" in the title, when there are Arab members of Knesset, an Arab minister in government, and Arab citizens speak freely in the press (often to denounce Israel) isn't *necessarily* anti-Semitic, but it certainly smacks pretty pungently of it. And unless he writes a book about Fatah and Hamas titled "Peace not Genocide" he holds the Jewish state to such a double standard as to fit most definitions of anti-Semitism.

(I do believe Israel should be held to a double standard, because it is a civilized and democratic state and should behave as such, which is not the case of the PA, but there comes a point where there is such a bias as to make you wonder.)

In this context, it's legitimate criticism to inquire further to see if Carter's behavior really is anti-Semitic -- if only because that's the only way to exonerate him. And the nice things he does otherwise shouldn't change that.

I just saw this over at TNR. Make of it what you will:

"Sharon explained at length that the Bantustan model was the most appropriate solution to the conflict."

http://www.tnr.com/blog/openuniversity?pid=82020

You know, PEG, under apartheid we had blacks in government (running the Bantustans) and someone like Steve Biko was free to criticise the government (until the newspaper he wrote for was banned and the police arrested him and beat him to death). So I fail to see your point.

And, by the way, doesn't the book say "Peace, Not Apartheid"? As in, "Let's not see the establishment of apartheid in Israel, please"?

Writing a book about Israel with the word "apartheid" in the title, when there are Arab members of Knesset, an Arab minister in government, and Arab citizens speak freely in the press (often to denounce Israel) isn't *necessarily* anti-Semitic, but it certainly smacks pretty pungently of it.

Ariel Sharon, when alive, explicitly endorsed the South African bantustan model as a solution for the west bank. How pungent was his anti-semitism?

Re grh

It is my policy not to respond in kind to personal attacks so I will refrain from such a response. However, your estimates of my age are seriously in error. I am at least old enough to have voted for James Earl Carter twice, mistakes which I try very hard not to repeat.

Re Ed Marshall

An accusation that a commenter is, "out of his mind," hardly qualifies as an intellectually responsible response.

Re Reality Man

1. I don't see what the political orientation of the Jerusalem Post has to do with anything. The Post, unlike the left wing rag Haaretz, prints a wide variety of opinions ranging from Caroline Glick who would qualify as a far right individual to Larry Derfner and M. J. Rosenberg who would qualify as left wing individuals (albeit not as far left as Amira Hess, Harretzs' answer to Norman Finkelstein). As a matter of fact, the other source I cited, the Israelinsider would qualify as pretty far right, certainly well to the right of the Jerusalem Post.

2. To be fair, Benny Morris has apparently undergone something of a change of paradigm of late and no longer believes that the Zionist enterprise in Palestine is a mistake. If true, then it would not be entirely fair to place him in the same catagory as Israel Shahak, who went to his grave proclaiming the supposed illegality of the Zionist enterprise.

3. If Mr. Reality Mans' intention is not to compare Israel with North Korea and Saudi Arabia, why mention them at all? In this regard, I would point out that the Palestinians are very fortunate that the late and unlamented Hafaz Assad, the dictator of Syria is not in charge of the Israeli Government. Assads' reaction to the type of provocations presented by Palestinian homicide bombers can be seen in his actions in the city of Hama in 1982. Residents of that city were carrying out terrorist attacks in Syria. Assad had the city surrounded by several hundred artillery pieces and subjected it to a two day bombardment which killed upwards of 20,000 people. This action was completely successful and eminently effective; the terrorists in that town, those that are still with us, have ceased and desisted from their terrorist actions ever since.

4. With respect to Arial Sharons' reputed endorsement of Bantustans in the West Bank, I would point out that, in his autobiography, he also stated that the Palestinian state was in Amman. He changed his opinion, incorrectly in my view, after he became Prime Minister. His actions in removing the settlements from the Gaza Strip indicate that he had also changed his mind about Bantustans.

SLC,

Now that you've admitted that you were too lazy to look up any information on Benny Morris before you called him an anti-Zionist, explain to us how removing the settlers from the Gaza Strip to set up a para-state entity with no control over its own borders--in other words, a bantustan--constitutes "changing his mind about bantustans." Hint: try googling the term "bantustan" before responding.

It is my policy not to respond in kind to personal attacks so I will refrain from such a response. However, your estimates of my age are seriously in error.

To be fair, I amended my evaluation of you to apply to your mental, rather than chronological, age.

Re William Burns

1. Mr. Morris' paradihm shift is a rather recent development. For almost all of his career, he has been decidedly anti-Zionist, little different from Israel Shahak. I have given him credit for changing his mind. Mr. Burns has not given Mr. Sharon credit for changing his mind about the Palestinian State being in Amman.

2. Israel has not granted the nascent Palestinian State in Gaza control of its borders for a very good reason. To do so would be to allow the unlimited import of arms which would be used to kill Israeli citizens, something which, I suspect, would bother Mr. Burns not at all.

Benny Morris has always been a revisionist zionist, you have no idea what are you are talking about. There is nothing in anything in he wrote but straight data (which should be obvious without documentation) about the 1948 campaigns. His opinions are actually the most odious thing about him and I'm certain you would disagree being of the same sort of nasty bent.

Of course, this would require reading instead of just feeling your way though and making it up as you go along on virtual Holy Land.

What I see in all the hoohaa over Jimmy Carter's book as well as other recent controversies is that criticism of policies and actions of the state of Israel has become the real "third rail" of American politics. No one can utter the slightest objection to anything of any significance about Israel's conduct without instantly being labeled anti-semitic or anti-Israel. If this kind of Neocon Political Correctness is allowed to silence public debate on the Israeli side of Israeli/Palistinian relations what are the implications for U.S. policy? Does it make of this country a true friend to Israel or just a craven enabler?

Shouting down one's adversary may be satisfying, but it only leads to delusion and self-deception.

i can't read comments but perhaps Carter should just mock those afflicted with the disease like Rush or Ann Coulter would do. It would sure be easier.

mirc
mirç
mırc
mırç
mircturk
turkmirc
mirc indir
mirc yukle
mirch
mırch
mirc turk
turk mirc
mırcturk
turkmırc
mırc turk
turk mırc
turkiyemirc
türkiyemirc
turkiye mirc
türkiye mirc
mircturkiye
mirctürkiye
mirc turkiye
mircturk
turkmırc
muhabbet
forum
forum
turkforum
turkiyeforum
mirc
turkmirc
toplist
site ekle
pagerank
turkmirc
turkforum
sohbet
chat
sohbet odaları
bedava sohbet
bedava chat
türk
karar

mirc

mirc

Hello Men
gallery is fantastic "Sunset Waves" very good
I am Blog

Thanks you really perfect one writing.I m always follow you.

Alışveriş indir arkadas driver sohbet sohbet cinsel sohbet cet çet sohbet odalari sohbet cet odasi çet sohbet kelebekfm chat chat web tasarimkelebekfm kelebek fm kelebek radyo cet cinsel cet cet kanallari cet odasi muhabbet izmir sohbet script cet çet mirc chat sohbet sohbet odalari kelebek kelebek sohbet

izmir sohbet cinsel sohbet kelebek mirc operserv chanserv siir botserv zurna mynet ataturk universitesi sohbet chat odalari au sohbet au chat kelebek script kelebek script kelebek mirc kelebek skript mric gazi universitesi sohbet chat odalari ,gazi sohbet,gazi chat,kelebek duzce universitesi sohbet chat odalari ,duzce sohbet,duzce chat ... ege universitesi sohbet chat odalari ,ege sohbet,ege chat,kelebek dumlu pınar universitesi sohbet chat odalari ,dumlupınar sohbet ... memoserv, memo serv,memoserv komutlari mesaj komutlari irc mesaj ... mirc indir kamerali mirc yabanci mirc mirc 6.21
sesli tv seslisesli sesliask sesli fıkra sesliefsane sesliyiz sesli türkiyem seslialem sesli dini sohbet ... erzincan universitesi sohbet chat odalari ,erzincan sohbet ... Yüzük Script mirc yüzük cet yüzük script 4 yuzuk sohbet yüzük chat ankara sohbet ankara chat ankara muhabbet ankara arkadas ankara.net erciyes universitesi sohbet chat odalari ,erciyes sohbet,erciyes ... dicle universitesi sohbet chat odalari ,dicle sohbet,dicle chat ... mirc indir,mirc script,mirc yukle,mirc,script mırç,mrc,kelebek ... kelebek cinsel sohbet cinsel chat kelebek mirc myrc script mirc programi turkçe mirc indir mric mrc ... izmir sohbet izmir chat izmir muhabbet izmir arkadas izmir cet çet kelebek sohbet odalari chat sohpet cet kelebek muhabbet çet ... arkadasbul askim - arkadas bul, arkadas arama, arkadas ara ... kelebek host iletisim bilgileri sitene sohbet ekle sitene chat ekle sitene sohbet odasi koy kelebek sohbet , chat kelebek sohbet , cet kelebek sohbet , canli ... sohbet Kizlarla Sohbet Kızlarla Sohbet, Bedava Sohbet Odası ... kelebek sohbet chat muhabbet amasya uiversitesi sohbet chat odalari au sohbet au chat canakkale onsekiz mart universitesi sohbet chat odalari comu ... istanbul sohbet istanbul chat istanbul muhabbet istanbul arkadas bacanak web tasarimci muhabbet

Thanks Best Regards
mirc
mırc
mırç
mircturk
mirctürk
turkmirc
mirc indir
mırc indir
mirç indir
mirc yükle
mırc yükle
mirc yukle
mırc yukle
mirch
mırch
turk mirc
mircada
muhabbet
mirc sohbet
mırc sohbet
mirc chat
mırc chat
mırc ındır
mirc ındır
türkçe mirc
turkce mirc
turkçe mırc
turkce mırc
oper mirc
irc forum
Mirc forum
irc forum

cok cok thank you

mirc sohbet
sesli sohbet
sex chat
sohbet
antalya sohbet
aşk
aşk
bedava sohbet
canlı chat
canlı sohbet
chat
chatci
gay sohbet
görüntülü chat
görüntülü sohbet
gurbet chat
gurbet sohbet
gurbetci chat
gurbetci sohbet
guzel
irc
kameralı chat
kameralı sohbet
kelebek sohbet
kız msn adresleri
kız msnleri
kızlarla chat
kızlarla sohbet
kız sohbet
kural
chatci
lezbiyen sohbet
liseli sohbet
muhabbet
muhabbet chat
muhabbet sohbet
mynet
sms
sohbet
sohbetci
sohbetli
sohbetli
toplist
türk sohbet
türkiye sohbet
yerli chat
yerli sohbet

Thanks

thanks

thanks you very much

extraordinarily good
Thanks Best Regards
mirc
mırc
mırç
mircturk
mirctürk
turkmirc
mirc indir
mırc indir
mirç indir
mirc yükle
mırc yükle
mirc yukle
mırc yukle
mirc sohbet
mırc sohbet
mirc chat
mırc ındır
kafkas
kafkasya
adige
irc forum
mirc forum
irc forum
mirc forum
irc forum
mirc forum
mirc
mirç
mirc inndir
türkçe mirc
mirc download
forum
sohbet
chat
catlak

muhabbet odalari
Sohbet
muhabbet
chat
türkçe mirc indir
çet
cet muhabbet
muhabbet kanali
Chat Sitesi
Chat
muhabbet
sohbet
türkçe mirc indir
chat odaları
sohbet
sohbet odaları
muhabbet
sohbetbizde
sohbetbizde
türkçe mirc indir
chat
sobet
sosyete sohbet
kelebek script
türkçe mirc indir
converse tarihi
converse
converse fiyatları
converse modelleri
converse çeşitleri
program sitesi
sohbet
yabancı sohbet
yalvaç sohbet
knight online
Selçuk
güncel blog
selçuk sönmez
Kişisel blog
idris bey vip
Sercan OGUZ
Kişisel blog
site ekle
toplist
türk toplist
add url
dizi izle
film izle
filimler
online film izle
online film seyret
Klip izle
Clip izle
Top 10 klip izle
Antalya Sohbet
Ankara Sohbet
Istanbul Sohbet
Izmir Sohbet
Goruntulu Sohbet
Sex Chat
Seks Sohbet
Seks Sohpet
Seks Cet
Kizlar Odasi
Kizlarla Sohbet
Kizlarla Sohpet
Yonja
Cinsel Sohbet
Cinsel Sohpet
Ask Sohbet
Sex Sohbet
Sex Sohpet
Sohpet Odalari
Sohbet Odalari
Sohbet Sitesi
Sohpet Sitesi
islami sohbet
islami sohpet
Sapik kizlar
Goruntulu Sohpet
Goruntulu Chat
Goruntulu Cet
Goruntulu Muhabbet
Kamerali Sohbet
Kamerali Sohpet
Kamerali Chat
Kamerali Cet
Kamerali Muhabbet