What A Time It Was

The good news is that if pandering to the Christian right is that critical for a national election, then the number of states that can produce a qualified Republican candidate is relatively small (and most of those states have meager electoral votes).

Yeah it's bizarre. I mean this goes beyond a mere flipflop on a politically expedient position. This is something he really seemed to feel strongly about.

Part of me wishes Jill Stein would run her Prius over Shannon O'Brien for running such a retarded campaign back in 2002 and leaving us with this weirdo.

Someone really needs to use the post title "That Was the Mitt that Was"

oh man, can you imagine the savaging romney's gonna get when the right wing really finds out how much of a flip-flopper he is? i mean, you thought they were bad when it came to accusing someone who they knew for certain wasn't their ally, wait until it comes down to calling out one of their own. and if there's one thing the right wing can be counted on, it's holding their own to the same standard they excoriate liberals for not living up to.

i just feel really badly for him, it's never gonna stop, and it's gonna be all he can do to come out with his limbs intact.

A cynical opponent might run campaign ads that ask "Is Romney really a conservative?" with the real subtext being, "Is Romney really a Christian?"

Look at the guy's mouth- this guy's a sleaze, if not worse. It's a woman's mouth for one thing. But, it's lurid, and sort of lewd. This motherfucker's bad news.

I have no idea how Romney thinks he can finesse this. It ought to be devastating, both in terms of denying him the religious right vote on his way to the nomination, and denying him trustworthiness in the general.

Of course, what do I know about how the non-reality-based side works. Maybe they'll believe whatever slimy lies he comes up with to cover for this.

I must say, he comes off as pretty good candidate. Moreso than I've ever noticed Giuliani or McCain to be.

Usually I'd disregard him because, if nothing else, his view on abortion here should immediately take him out of the consideration of anyone who treats a pro-life position as very important. That said, McCain is a senile panderer, and Giuliani is even "worse" in that regard.

What does it say about the dignity of the Republican base if their choices are all of people who don't give a shit about them beyond getting their votes in the primary?

Of course, Democrats have it only slightly better in that regard...

We just need to remember that the evangelicals flocked to an alcoholic coke snortin prodigal son who told us all that he got saved. Romney is simply doing his version of that toe dance and given his otherwise apparently squeaky clean life he has far fewer personal issues with the fundies.
Romney also has Land of the SBC in his corner and speaks at Pat Robertson's Regent University in the Fall. He is getting annointed because the Christian Right sees him as electable unlike Huckabee or Brownback (even the Right can not believe a preacher or hardcore fundie can get elected; Romney was basically a neighborhood watch chief not a preacher). They will not that easily forgive McCain's open disparagement of their movement in the past and Giuliani in drag is a real nonstarter.
So what they gonna do? Certainly anything to keep the Evil One out of the WH.
I think that the Dems are in a worse place at this point. HRC has so many left Dems and Republics who simply will not support her, Pretty Boy has not been able to overcome his basic Not Serious image, and ObamaRama is OK reality tv but not electable.
At this point I'd give it to Romney in 08.
Yes I think that we have come to that.

A column in todays' Washington Post about flipflopper Romney.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/20/AR2007022001266.html?sub=AR

10 yard penalty for using an electability argument against a Democratic candidate. See rule change 2004-a.

Don't tell me we wouldn't have done if Robert Reich had won in the primary over Shannon O'Brien. He would have pinned down Multi-Choice Mitt on the issues and we wouldn't even be talking about this self-promoter now.

Romney's a whore who will say anything to get elected. If I were the Democrats, I'd be salivating to run against this guy. Any halfway decent Dem. campaign strategist should be able to come up with a few TV ads to drive down Republican turnout and independent support.

Matt: I really think it is unnecessary to call the man a liar. After all, for all we know it is plausible he--like a small but not negligible fraction of the American populace--has changed his mind on abortion. That said, his change of heart has been certainly dramatic enough that he owes the public a very serious clarification of the history of his transformation, and of where he stands today.

What does it say about the dignity of the Republican base if their choices are all of people who don't give a shit about them beyond getting their votes in the primary?

there was as segment this AM on NPR about this. the big 4 GOP contenders are going to be speaking to the evangelicals at a big event somewhere soon, and they interviewed the organizers of the event. the people interviewed were sure that all the candidates were going to show up and say all the right words, but they clearly weren't going to take their speeches at face value. they actually seemed pretty jaded about the whole thing. evangelicals have the same problem anti-war or pro-environment liberals have: candidates who say the right words when they need to, but just can't bring themselves to taking big steps. after a while, we all get used to empty promises.

When has being a Lying Whore ever disqualified anyone from becoming president? I thought it came in at #2 right after Really Good Teeth, only slipping to #2 since the 70's.

"Matt: I really think it is unnecessary to call the man a liar. After all, for all we know it is plausible he--like a small but not negligible fraction of the American populace--has changed his mind on abortion."

File this under "bending over backwards".

This is so bad for Romney in the GOP that it's going to spill over and be bad for McCain. They both are waffling panderers on the issue. Candidates like Huckabee and Brownback have a real choice to rise.

OT: Dems need to come up with a counter to the GOP talking point 'I'm going to appoint strict constructionists' to the bench. That view means modern judges are going to view the Constitution as though no Amendments exist beyond the Bill of Rights. I think Dems could do some real electoral damage to the GOP if they had McCain, Giuliani, et al. on the record as supporting judges who view the 19th Amendment as an afterthought.

"So what they gonna do? Certainly anything to keep the Evil One out of the WH.
I think that the Dems are in a worse place at this point. HRC has so many left Dems and Republics who simply will not support her, Pretty Boy has not been able to overcome his basic Not Serious image, and ObamaRama is OK reality tv but not electable.
At this point I'd give it to Romney in 08.
Yes I think that we have come to that."

And YOU give up too frickin' easy!

Shannon O'Brien's run for governor of Massachusetts may not have won her the office, but there is no doubt in my mind that it kills whatever faint hope Mitt Romney may have of being president.

She doesn't deserve attacks, she deserves a pat on the back.

Flipping on this issue won't hurt him with the fundies, they believe in miraculous conversions more than they believe in anything else. The same can't be said for the general population, and this, along with being a Mormon, will crush him should he stumble his way to the victory stand in the GOP primary.

I don't see the problem. The fact that he'll do anything to get elected is a big plus. McCain had a reputation that he wouldn't stoop to dispicable levels to get elected, and that has hurt him in the past. He has spent the last 8 years trying to destroy that reputation so that he will be electable to his fellow Republicans. Romney is just ahead of the pack in that regard. The Republicans WANT a candidate who will do or say anything to get elected. It is required.

Here's your attack ad tagline!

Mitt Romney. He'll believe anything. And he'll say anything to be president.

I think people underestimate the degree to which Republicans are willing to close their eyes and allow a candidate to "evolve" on the social issues. My sense is that Romney is so blatant that he crosses the line regardless, but still, they're simply different from the Democrats in this regard. Deep down, they know their positions are in the minority and they'll take whatever "converts" they can get.

Understand that the leaders of the Religious Right are political operatives first and foremost. Their personal power is tied to the fortunes of the Republican Party and they can't afford to let that go. If someone squishy like Romney or Giuliani is actually in line to get the nomination, the Religious Right is guaranteed to suddenly pronounce them as sincere social cons, because if a Democrat wins they're completely shut out of the process.

Also, I'd note that playing the flip-flop card cuts both ways for Dems. Sure, it weakens Romney's credibility. But there's a downside to making a big deal out of the fact that deep down, Romney might actually agree with the majority of Americans on the social issues, and he's just saying he agrees with the batshit minority to win the Republican nomination. There are millions and millions of Americans who don't care all that much about the hot-button social issues, and they're not going to care if someone is a squish on those issues. All they really want is for the candidate not to be some crazy extremist, and when you point out that the candidate likes to have it both ways, all that does is reassure these voters that he's not a wacko.

The part that really pissed me off wasn't the whole change in positions. It was Romney's arrogance and pomposity in that YouTube clip. Saying "let's raise the tone of this debate a little bit" in the middle of the actual debate cannot raise the tone: it lowers it.

and if there's one thing the right wing can be counted on, it's holding their own to the same standard they excoriate liberals for not living up to.

Which is why George W. Bush is right this minute sweating out his impeachment for lying during the State of the Union addresss. All those moral right wingers and their hatred of lying.

Romney's whole campaign will go flying off the road and over a cliff as soon as someone asks him: "Is the Book of Mormon a Sacred Scripture, another Revelation from God, equal to the Bible?"
One question, and he's history! Who is going to ask it?

Yeah, also, we must be sure to ask Jewish candidates what they think of the New Testament. That's the type of country I aspire to live in, for sure.

What's all the fuss about? So we discover that yet another of our (what's the number now, 30?) 2008 prez wannabes is a whoring little weasel. Wow, what a surprise.

Christian fundamentalists aren't retarded, guys. It's not like they're choosing Romney vs. Hillary Clinton. It's Romney vs. McCain, Romney vs. Brownback, Romney vs. Huckabee.

Being tagged as a flip-flopping panderer is the kiss of death in Presidential politics. Mitt Romney makes John Kerry look like Jesus Christ. This guy is toast--and it's nobodys fault but his own.

I love this line. ... 'from storks'

Now that's an immaculate conception.

Actually, I think he is quite plain that he does not accept the description "pro-choice" for himself., and all he says is that as Gov. of Mass. he will protect a woman's right to choose. I assume he did that. He could always say "Look - I'm pro life - but Mass. is not. So I decided I shouldn't try to force my views on this on them if I was their Gov." It's consistent and could be honest. Of course, it won't work on the Christian Right, because they only like candidates who believe they SHOULD force their views on us heathens.

Bwahahahhahaha! That is comedy gold.

I doubt it will hurt Romney though. If those evangelicals believe their best buddy is a magical man who lived 2,000 years ago they'll believe anything. They always vote for the establishment tool no matter what. JEB's endorsed Romney already. It's a done deal.

For more history of Mitt having it all ways on abortion, see:
"Romney's Abortion Flip-Flop."

"I have ALWAYS believed, to my core, that I should be raised on high before the teeming multitudes."

Romney has jumped the shark. It's not anyone of his flip-flops, it's the collective, repititive weight of them all. Abortion, gay rights, gun control, and worst of all his Tsongas vote, which is the worst because it's not serious, it just makes him look like a joke.

"...the dude turns out to be a decent liar..."

First, there can be no comparing Romney to Lebowski, even if unintentional. Lebowski is just too cool.

Second, maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think Romney has been saying that he's never supported the pro-choice position. What he's saying is that he now opposes it. This doesn't make him a liar, it makes him a flip-flopper. He'll be fine if he can offer a reasonable explanation for changing his stance, with the assumption that such an explanation will not involve political calculation. And yes, that's a very big IF.

I have never seen such a weak Republican field of candidates. I suppose somebody will come out on top and perceptions may change, but Romney's flip-flopping, Rudy's liberalism, and McCain's destroyed credibility (on the right and left) will make this a fun, fun, fun election for Democrats.

Steve -

You'd be correct if there were only a general election to deal with, but Romney/Rudy/McCain has to survive the primaries. Rudy is still pro-choice, and I can't see any way the right supports him. Romney - perhaps you're right, but even then their enthusiasm will be greatly diminished. They may not revolt, but they're not going to go out on a rainy November morning for the guy, either.

Given the fact that Linus has been known for some time to be a big, dumb jerk his opinion that the so-called war on terror is now more important in the minds of Republican voters than the culture war issues of the 1980s and 1990s giving Rudy "bitchen mayor of America" Giuliani a distinct advantage should be mostly disregarded if not dismissed outright.

Romney is merely following the time-honored tradition of "necessary conversion". Every major Democrat who claimed to be pro-life (Clinton and Gore come to mind) had their own "necessary conversion" when they ran for President. It's a reflection of the difference in running for State vs. Federal office. Criticize Romney all you want - but if you didn't criticize Clinton or Gore for the same thing....ask yourself....why?

Mitler made his first order of business upon election as Governor of Massachusetts the restoration of the death penalty. So when his oppostion to Gay Marriage became his next burning crusade, I realized that he was no different than the small dicked mormons I grew up with in Idaho. To quote my father, "he's never gonna cut a fat hog in the ass."

The Republicans have very little chance of winning in '08. Every pandering statement to the religious right is going to turn off other voters and they already have the religious right. The Republican primary will just get them all on record for issues that the majority of the population will not support. It will be a landslide (unless the Dems decide to give Hillary the nomination and handicap the Republicans with 5 or 6 states).

Saying that babies come from storks might indeed help him win the Republican nomination. Or anything that separates sex from good people and families

Are you sure he committed to being personally pro-choice? The video linked to seems to show him promising the voters of Massachusetts to support a specific policy.

This also seems consistent with the straddle posted on his website -- namely, that he's not going to try to enact anti-abortion policies because the issue is too divisive, and therefore best left to the states.

The overall message seems to be, "I personally oppose abortion, but am unwilling to waste any political capital on a politically impossible (or at least deeply divisive) ban." Understandably, he focused on the latter half while running in a strongly pro-choice state.

If you read all these comments, you relize hou lost we realy are when it comes to alternitive feuls. I think there might be some conspiracy from our goverments and there is a lot of con artists in this for money. But one thing is for sure - you can not buy a car that uses water as feul. I think we must start using wind and sun energy to safe money at home and spent it on fuel untill hybrid cars become the norm

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Mitler made his first order of business upon election as Governor of Massachusetts the restoration of the death penalty. So when his oppostion to Gay Marriage became his next burning crusade, I realized that he was no different than the small dicked mormons I grew up with in Idaho. To quote my father, "he's never gonna cut a fat hog in the ass."

So when his oppostion to Gay Marriage became his next burning crusade, I realized that he was no different than the small dicked mormons I grew up with in Idaho. To quote my father, "he's never gonna cut a fat hog in the ass."

So when his oppostion to Gay Marriage became his next burning crusade, I realized that he was no different than the small dicked mormons I grew up with in Idaho. To quote my father, "he's never gonna cut a fat hog in the ass."

So when his oppostion to Gay Marriage became his next burning crusade

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The good news is that if pandering to the Christian right is that critical for a national election, then the number of states that can produce a qualified Republican candidate is relatively small (and most of those states have meager electoral votes).

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