Hillary Clinton, Hawk

I think it's a little depressing on several levels that it requires a long and brilliant article to make the point, but as Michael Crowley notes in a long and brilliant article on the subject the reason Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq authorizing resolution appears to be that she thought it was the right thing to do; it appears that she won't apologize for it because she doesn't think she was wrong; and, last, it appears that her views on both these things are connected to a larger worldview that's more militaristic than your average liberal's.

I say it's depressing because it winds up simultaneously being unfair to her opponents. She's so stuck with the "calculating" tag that even in the face of all the evidence, Clinton's views on Iraq get read exclusively through the lense of political calculation (like any pol, of course, she does in fact do some calculating) without any consideration of the possibility that there are real views her. Conversely, her opponents deserve a chance at a real debate over what kind of foreign policy the voters want, and not one in which we pretend that everyone agrees and this is all just a game of gotcha and who said what when.

3/26/07 1:10AM del.icio.us this incoming links

Comments

True. But you're missing the more important point: her views on Iran. Whatever she thought of Iraq is now in the past, by concentrating on overanalyzing that, we're missing that she and all these candidates have a position on Iran that is practically identical to that of Bush on Iran and on Iraq.

It's an election cycle (perpetual, now), and all these candidates will jump through hoops to adopt the policy that AIPAC sends them. Unless enough of us speak out in every forum possible to make it clear that we think that these candidate's policy should reflect what we think, and not that of AIPAC, it will continue to reflect Aipac's policy, and all of our nuancing, overanalyzing of their arguments and gotcha games will be entirely useless.

Let's remember, all these candidates were competing like show ponies at the AIPAC conference to outdo one another in who likes AIPAC more. Now go to AIPAC's website and check out what their position is on Iraq, Iran, and everything else.

That's what we REALLY need to be talking about.

Posted by: Adam on March 26, 2007 01:59 AM

I wish it was not behind the TNR wall :(

Posted by: Eric on March 26, 2007 02:38 AM

This from a UK interview with Robert Conquest the old Sovietologist. It could very well be how Hillary sees things as well:

He (Robert Conquest) accepts not just as inevitable but as desirable the prominence of what he calls the "Anglosphere" in world affairs, sympathising with the view that "liberal imperialism" is the better choice against the alternative of barbarism. Though, as ever, he is wary of illusions. "The world that Americans and other Westerners full of goodwill want to ride, feed and pat," he writes in his new book, "is not a sweet-tempered little pony but a huge, vile-tempered mule."

Even George W Bush gets a fair hearing: "He could be worse."

Posted by: Trevor on March 26, 2007 02:54 AM

I like how the choice is limited to either liberal imperialism or barbarism.

Posted by: daveNYC on March 26, 2007 03:55 AM

not strictly relevant, but Jeffrey Sachs has a good piece in the March Scientific American about Kennedy, the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the game theory/foreign policy approach called GTAT - Generous Tit for Tat

http://scientificamerican.com/print_version.cfm?articleID=C7412A92-E7F2-99DF-33944138A9A1775D

Posted by: roublen on March 26, 2007 04:52 AM

The Clintons are getting much more hawkish money this time, which makes the calculations easier.

Posted by: Gary Sugar on March 26, 2007 05:43 AM

http://www.juancole.com/

Barack Obama said Sunday ... that 'the Iraq war is diminishing America's standing in the world and diverting millions of dollars that should be spent on health care, education and alternative energy research in the United States . . . "We have to recognize that if we don't make some fundamental changes right now that we could be the first generation in a very long time that leaves an America behind that is a little poorer and a little meaner than the one we inherited from our parents, and that's unacceptable . . ." '

Posted by: Jennifer on March 26, 2007 06:02 AM

After all the important discussion, I am convinced now as I was before that Hillary Clinton is a heart-felt militarist and has every intention of occupying Iraq through her presidency should she win no matter the cost in blood and resources. I cannot support such a candidate for the presidency, but there are excellent alternatives to Clinton.

Posted by: Jennifer on March 26, 2007 06:13 AM

Trevor,
Are the views you quoted Robert Conquest's, or are they Hillary Clinton's?

Posted by: Tom on March 26, 2007 07:11 AM

HRC does some "some calculating" huh Matt?! Thank you, always good to begin a Monday morning with a laugh.
Who believes that no matter what she "really" thought about the Iraq war authorization that she would have voted against? So that vote is useless as a guide other than to her general political mendacity.
But we have much better evidence for her true beliefs. We know, in advance, her publicly stated antagonisms towards Iran just as we knew the Clintons' Iraq fetishism.
Thus it is no big secret and does not require Crowley to know that HRC is a military adventurist; that is after all a critical component of the DLC ideology, a sad sort of "centrism" that could as easily pass as "compassionate conservatism".
After all doesn't the word Balkins still ring bells?

Posted by: Willy on March 26, 2007 08:17 AM

The problem is simple, Hillary Clinton is a hawk and could be as destructive to the country in her hawkishness as George Bush has been. I am tired of people excusing her constant hawkishness as though this will change if she is elected when she says it will not change. I voted for Democrats to get us out of Iraq, so I will not vote for Clinton even though I will vote for any other Democrat.

Posted by: Ari on March 26, 2007 10:15 AM

This weekend, I repeatedly heard people comment they will vote Democratic but not for Clinton. She has money and organization because of the money, but I do not find voting support. The reasons are Iraq hawkishness and lack of trustfulness.

Posted by: Ari on March 26, 2007 10:17 AM

I think it is quite true that she is a genuine hawk, though I might add that this is not exclusive of the view that she gets there through political calculation. A lot of Democrats watched George McGovern lose despite being right on Vietnam, and then watched Republicans call Democrats wimps for decades thereafter, and concluded that no matter how wrong an American foreign policy is and how many people it kills, it always pays to be hawkish.

In any event, shed no tears for Hillary. She believes that it was a truly good idea that we killed 3,100 American servicemembers and created utter chaos in Iraq. That's a very good reason she should not (and will not) be elected.

Posted by: Dilan Esper on March 26, 2007 10:34 AM

Agree with this generally, except maybe for this point:

it appears that she won't apologize for it because she doesn't think she was wrong

It's also possible she won't apologize because asking people to apologize for past policy decisions is kind of a bullshit thing to do. Yes, some positions are so egregiously and obviously immoral that they do merit an actual apology (see, for example, Jim Crow), but very few make this bar. The Iraq War certainly doesn't, even despite the human tragedy that directly resulted.

Posted by: TH on March 26, 2007 11:24 AM

"It's also possible she won't apologize because asking people to apologize for past policy decisions is kind of a [BS] thing to do. Yes, some positions are so egregiously and obviously immoral that they do merit an actual apology...."

Well, there's two good reasons for her to apologize. First, there's 3,100 American families for whom an actual apology might be quite meaningful, because every day they go to the dinner table knowing that their son, daughter, husband, wife, mother, father, sister, or brother was killed as a result of Hillary Clinton's vote. I think they'd like to know that she now thinks she shouldn't have voted to kill them.

Second, and more importantly, an apology connotes that she's LEARNED something. There are a lot more Iraq Wars that neoconservatives and others would love to Mau-Mau us into. And there's a real question as to whether she still believes in the ideology that made her think it was a great idea to go into Iraq and kill those 3,100 American servicemembers. Apologizing is a way of telling the public that she's not going to be so hawkish in the future.

Posted by: Dilan Esper on March 26, 2007 02:45 PM

I believe Hillary Clinton's Iraq war vote was based solely on political calculation, and had nothing to do with a broader worldview. In that sense, Senator Clinton was no different than most of her other colleagues in Congress. Hillary Clinton, along with the rest of the war's supporters, showed a lack of any will to at least fully debate and question the march to war.

Posted by: Sheldon on March 26, 2007 03:31 PM

"Trevor, Are the views you quoted Robert Conquest's, or are they Hillary Clinton's?" (Tom)

Tom, they're Conquest's views in an interview with "The Telegraph". Conquest (now 90) had books dedicated to him by Martin Amis and Christopher Hitchens, His landmark history of Stalin's purges "The Great Terror" (1968) put him at the forefront of anti-Communism and he believes that Margaret Thatcher was the world's greatest post WWII leader. His work was important but his views are another thing. And, I'm convinced Hillary subscibes to them.

Posted by: Trevor on March 26, 2007 03:44 PM

Trevor, Are the views you quoted Robert Conquest's, or are they Hillary Clinton's? (Tom)

Tom, they're Conquest's views in an interview with "The Telegraph". Conquest (now 90) had books dedicated to him by Martin Amis and Christopher Hitchens, His landmark history of Stalin's purges "The Great Terror" (1968) put him at the forefront of anti-Communists and he believes that Margaret Thatcher was the world's greatest post WWII leader. His work was important but his views are another thing. And, I'm convinced Hillary subscibes to them.

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