Like a PC or Like a Dictator?

one more problem with the mac narrative: mac got crushed in the end. obama may be snazzy, new, and more approachable. but who's going to end up with the market share?

How is it out of bounds to point out that HRC is a would-be totalitarian dictator? If you live in one of the countries that will be on the receiving end of bombs dropped in the name of her neo-imperialist foreign policy I don't think the difference between her and George Bush seems all that big.

Uh, Matt: the point of the Mac ad is not only that Windoze is gray, tedious, dull, etc. -- but that it's totalitarian.

I suspect Matt's playing dumb here. The clear connotations of the ad are of anti-democratic groupthink. The references to 1984, the karaoke-like subtitles. There's no other way to interpret it, whether or not you're a mac user.

However, here and otherwise I do think Matt does a good job of creating space for the "right" (not-destructive-of-democratic-ends) opinion through cleverness.

After all, as foucault taught us, rightness and power are inextricably linked. If through cleverness you can create the narrative you want, well then, you get what you want.

We needed Foucault for that??? If only Aeschylus had read Foucault...

Yeah, I dunno. I didn't learn it from foucault. But he was a guy who said it. I haven't read much of that sort of deal. but sometimes you have some thoughts and then you read someone else saying something that echoes your thoughts, and you go "oh boy" and then that guy becomes the guy who taught you the thing.

I think it's time for bed!

Since the original ad dates from 1984 (Superbowl XVIII), the 2007 mash-up is actually comparing Hillary to a DOS-machine. DOS 2.0, to be precise.

Note that the ad was retouched (officially or not, I do not know) to give the runner iPod+headphones, sometime after 2001.

I think you're underestimating the awareness of the edgy-mac/stodgy-pc paradigm by the people viewing the mashup. It's only viewable on the web after all. Plus the Mac Vs. PC ads have been saturating broadcast television for several months now.

Great appearance on Bloggingheads, btw.

one more problem with the mac narrative: mac got crushed in the end.

Whatever.

Hillary Clinton is a would-be totalitarian dictator. The former sentiment is a sentiment that, I think, a lot of us liberal political junkies can share and certainly something that I think is fair game. The latter sentiment, by contrast, is not only a pretty outrageous claim but also happens to precisely echo one of the incredibly large set of unhinged attacks the right wing has been perpetrating against Clinton for over a decade now.

Look, there are plenty of Authoritarian Liberals, (Just look at Rudy Guiliani!) Hillary strikes me as an Authoritarian Liberal, frankly, and that's why I liked the add, even though I'm generally an Apple hater.

A liberal authoritarian is the school marmy type who wants to ban alcohol, cigarettes, violent video games, doesn't care about civil liberties any more then Bush, wants to put more people in jail, more cops on the street, more government control over your life.

WAMP WAMP WAMP WAMP WAMP

one more problem with the mac narrative: mac got crushed in the end. obama may be snazzy, new, and more approachable. but who's going to end up with the market share?

WAMP WAMP WAMP WAMP WAMP WAMP WAMP WAMP WAMP WAMP WAMP WAMP WAMP WAMP

opening up the Mac/PC can o' WORMS is always pointless. it's like comparing "Volvos" to "American Cars." Volvo is a brand, American cars are outmoded pieces of crap. In the end, Volvo is still 50% owned by Ford. Intel inside! Dude, you're getting a Dell. I love my MacBookPro; have fun playing World of Warcrap on your 5k alienware scuzzbucket and whacking off to Hentai.

Matt, you seem to be projecting the themes of the current Mac ad campaign onto the past. The current campaign is indeed designed to portray Mr. PC as a tedious and dull - even harmless and affable - dweeb.

But once upon a time, IBM was "Big Blue" and associated in much of the public mind with an authoritarian, regimented and oppressive Cold War corporate culture - a black socks and garters world that was even rather scary and secretive, and part of the military-idustrial complex and all that. And Mac represented the rising young generation of liberated newcomers, who were not just making a more fun, less boring product, but were changing the country's corporate culture, and ushering in a more individualized and much less hierarchical information processing world. Back when there were no personal computers, and IBM was still convinced that most of the county's computing needs would be handled by massive supercomputers in centralized computing centers, the idea of IBM as Big Brother was not so far-fetched. The 1984 ad was one of the early cultural signposts of the free-market-loving entrepreneurial "anarchist" culture of the bubbling, deregulated 90's. The self-effacing and clueless dork of the current ad campaign is a dramatic change from the IBM image of decades past.

I don't know who remixed this current ad, but it seems to me to be clearly aimed at capturing the old 1984 spirit of the original ad, and portraying Hillary as literally the face of an oppressive, secretive, frightening and totally inauthentic political elite.

Wow, SHJ, total irony. A rant with the geekiness of virulently defending a computer product, while at the same time insulting the geekiness of other computer products for no reason but their geekiness. Bravo, troll.

Anyway MY, I'd posit that a lot of liberals really do see HRC's inevitability approach (combined with overwhelming cash and the support of everyone from the previous Democratic administration) as akin to Big Brother. I agree wholeheartedly with you that we shouldn't encourage the right wing trolls who see her as power-hungry, but I don't think you're going to get liberals to stop saying these things, since it's really not an accident.

Oh also, for a number of reasons John Hodgeman (the PC) always wins those Mac-PC ads in my heart. He's sweet, not smarmy, and I generally see the ads while watching Daily Show. This is clearly just a random error on apple's part, but if I were David Brooks I could totally write a whole column about how this means liberals are doomed.

This is a bit off topic I realize but has anyone else noticed the iPod strapped to the runner's waste? Seems like pretty genius product placement to me. Although they'd never admit to it, is it plausible that Apple's ad agency might be behind it? From a brand standpoint, the two brands (Apple + Obama) appeal today to a lot of the same people. It's hard to figure why anyone would dig up the video, use some pretty high-end video production editing software to produce the film and integrate an iPod into it unless there's a point. I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

Whoa, easy on those trolls there, Gandalf! Try actually understanding my analogy before you dismiss my argument. This PC/Mac duality is an invalid concept; it's not that simple. Macs are pc compatible enough now that they're just a great computer company, not a whole different category.

I really can't believe that they had Bill Gates on the Daily Show without John Hodgeman at least coming out on stage and saying something, anything. It could have been classic.

Ben,
A little bit back Apple redid the 1984 commercial with an iPod. This ad used that ad as the base for when they modified it. Although speaking paranoidly: who sits on Apple's Board of Directors and would be very happy at seeing Hillary Clinton taken down a few pegs (maybe so they could run)?

Well said, Dan. The point of the ad is more than Hillary is boring, but that she is being forced down the throats of the unresisting drones by the political/money powers that be. After all, the point of the original commercial was not that IBM wants to set up mass labor camps for everybody, but that they are a bad product that people see themselves as having no choice but to accept. That actually sounds quite a lot like the last Soviet Premiers when you come to think of it. And if you ask yourself if the reason Hillary is the front-runner to win the Democratic Nomination is the attractiveness of her policies and personality, or the great institutional power (money/people/position) she's assembled to steamroller over her oppositon, perhaps the answer to that question shows why the commercial is spot on.

And sorry Matt, this is a criticism this needs to be said, and said with sharpness, even if a few Republican wingnuts get their jollies from it.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that we shouldn't encourage the right wing trolls who see her as power-hungry, but I don't think you're going to get liberals to stop saying these things, since it's really not an accident.

Oh my. This "narrative" obsession is really leading us into some blind alleys and incoherent thinking, isn't it? "Don't say what's true because other people notlikeus might repeat it, but it's true."

So those on the left who think Hillary might have authoritarian tendencies should be forced to deny it in a conversation with a rightie, but can acknowledge it when amongs lefties?

This is painfully lame. The "narrative" is an attempt to exert control over the Democratic Party conversation at precisely the time when it most unlikely to work. Where was this "narrative" back in 1980, when it might've made a difference? Now, as real PR people know -- unlike the amateurs who talk so confidently in places like this -- we're in a time when no one controls the conversation. It can't be controlled. You saw it for yourself just three years ago with the Swift Boats. Not a single Democrat acknowledged it, the mainstream media handled it very gingerly, it appeared mostly to live only in the right-wing swamps -- and yet it was devastating.

Some new thinking needs to be applied here that reflects the reality of a highly decentralized politics comprised of independent lurkers, trolls and window-shoppers who will insist on access to unvarnished consumer information before buying anything, including Hillary.

Hooray, a Mac vs. PC thread at Yglesias' place, so let's have at it:

Apple dictates the hardware and severely limits the choice of software people can use, yet PCs are gray, dull and totalitarian? The power of marketing seems to be boundless.
Also, Apple's stock market value is mainly due to Ipod/tunes.

This notion that only republicans dislike Hillary because she comes of authoritarian is misguided at best. When people worry she will continue fighting the war, start a war with Iran, or ban violence in the media they aren't worried about her being too fluffy and nice. They are worried about her ignoring democratic or constitutional imperatives just like Bush does. In other words, they're worried that Hillary will advance the cause of authoritarianism with her own view of a unitary executive.

Obama's right about not being able to afford that ad, by the way. (He clearly meant he couldn't afford the ad in total, not that he couldn't hire an undergrad with a MacBook Pro.) It cost $1.6 million in 2006 dollars.

I didn't remember the original ad but the Obama version seems lame to me. Are the quotes that Hillary is saying in the ad 'totalitarian'? If not, it is the ad that is attempting to manipulate. And it certainly not clear to me how Obama wouldn't look equally 'totalitarian' if it was him on the screen.

"This is clearly just a random error on apple's part, but if I were David Brooks I could totally write a whole column about how this means liberals are doomed."

It's not a random error. They made precisely the same mistake in Britain, where they used Mitchell and Webb from Peep Show, and everyone who sees the ad prefers Mitchell (the PC). They've cunningly managed to take the common computer geek perception of Mac owners as smug and project it to the entire public. Way to go Apple!

This illustrates a fascinating aspect of American culture, marketing experts’ manipulation of our inability to distinguish authentic from inauthentic. In this the full-color ipod-wearing authentic rebel looks suspiciously like a silicon-enhanced fashion model, probably unable to throw anything heavier than a cupcake at that screen.

Ads about proles, for proles?

Still, it's a fun advert.

I think Matt misses a point that Tony V articulates--the actual subtext of the ad is not that Hilary is dull and purposely bland (though she surely is), but that she speaks in a dialect of highly refined PC-doublespeak. Combined with her entire campaign ethos of "you have no choice but me," her calls for a "national conversation" and such ring nearly as ironic as some of Orwell's lines. She'll let us have a conversation, but she'll do all the talking, and the "conversation" won't involve anything that offends Iowan or New Hampshire sensibilities.

Hillary's inability to say anything that doesn't sound vetted and focus grouped is a huge problem for her campaign, and seems like what the ad is taking on.

As to the ad playing into right-wing narratives about Hilllary being a would-be authoritarian dictator, I'm lost as to the jump between an average voter seeing this ad and the right-wing driving a "Hitlery" message. This kind of ad, with this kind of message, gets to the heart of many people's Hillary problem, and doesn't seem a bit out of bounds.

Historical correction: Windows 1.0 was not even released until 1985. This ad ran in 1984. The ad is targeting "IBM PC" machines, most of which were still running DOS.

Hillary Clinton always seems machine-like, uncaring about anything other than her ambition. Tell me when she finds a heart. Calling for the Wizard....

There is nothing wrong with the ad, and beside the hateful mainstream media columns on Barack Obama and race the ad is tame as can be. Clinton is the candidate who just promised us troops in Iraq forever. Machine-like indeed.

Dan Kervick and Counterfactual nailed this one.

Matt is probably a little too young to viscerally appreciate the original 1984 Mac ad. Corporate America was a very, very different place back then. The World War 2 generation still ran the country, conformists ruled the roost, and even low-ranking middle managers wore a suit to the office five days per week. TV commercials were still primarily composed of dippy jingles and pseudo-experts intoning the virtues of Brand X with a straight face. Irony rarely reared its ugly head.

And despite the fact that their product was decidedly mediocre, corporate America was buying IBM machines almost exclusively, because they were a "serious" company trusted by the older generation, and they had powerful political and B2B connections.

Both the original ad and the anti-Hillary remake are driven not so much by opposition to items that are stodgy, dull, and grey, but by a refusal to toe the party line and accept the clearly inferior product just because the establishment refuses to offer you any alternatives.

And yes, (in retrospect) the irony of the ad is that Apple's business model is actually more authoritarian than that of the PC market. They offer us the distinctly 1990s version of totalitarianism-- a corporate establishment selling us institutionalized, prepackaged and niche-marketed-rebellion, with profits going back to the corporate establishment. Instead of one bland candidate, you get five perky candidates in five different pre-approved styles and colors that are all the same on the inside.

I have a bad feeling that the Democratic primaries are going to play out in a similar fashion.

Preston: didn't remember the original ad but the Obama version seems lame to me. Are the quotes that Hillary is saying in the ad 'totalitarian'? If not, it is the ad that is attempting to manipulate. And it certainly not clear to me how Obama wouldn't look equally 'totalitarian' if it was him on the screen.

I'm with Preston on this one, what's effective about the ad is the juxtaposition of the distopic video and the speaker. But, any one of the leading contenders including Mr Obama talking to drones about "hope" would look as bad.

Reagan's people used love news clips Sam Donaldson trashing them with video of Reagan in front big American flags, as long as they got their video shot on the news.

OK, I stand corrected.

Bad post.... Matt's got this all wrong. He writes:

If, by contrast, you're not familiar with the source ad, it's sending a very different message: Hillary Clinton is a would-be totalitarian dictator.

Those familiar with the original add, whether this includes those that did this parity, know that he inverted the two. The source add is about the totalitarian.... IBM, not grey, dull Windows.

Hamilton Lovecraft: The real story is here...
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=my&s=MSFT&l=off&z=l&q=l&c=aapl

In this the full-color ipod-wearing authentic rebel looks suspiciously like a silicon-enhanced fashion model, probably unable to throw anything heavier than a cupcake at that screen.

I think this says more about you than the ad. The woman was actually a discus thrower. The fashion model types they tried couldn't pull off the hammer throw.

This is why the creator of the ad eventually will surface. If Hillary wins the nomination, this ad will be used at every opportunity by the Republicans and if you're for Obama now, I can't see how you'd want your piece of work used against a Democrat who isn't that far off from Obama in the first place.

As an aside, I'm surprised Apple hasn't asked YouTube to remove it since it's in gross violation of their copyright on the original ad. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they should because I think mashups like this should be okay, but Apple does have an itchy legal team.

"If by contrast, you're not familiar with the source ad, it's sending a very different message: Hillary Clinton is a would-be totalitarian dictator."

Hence one supposes the moniker lib Hitler Hillary.

The irony here of course is that if the American electorate in its vast wisdom (or as Sullyman might say: wysdom) elects that "kewl mayor type" Giuliani they may have elected the real lib Hitler.

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