NCLB Paranoia Again

Rightwing secret plot = a notorious oxymoron

I think you are getting a bit too hung up on intent. Whatever the intent, it seems likely that the effect is going to be to hurt support for public education. Drum pretty effectively rebuts your low standards argument IMO.

Matt,
Quick question: assuming you have no school-age children of your own[1], how many hours/week do you spend volunteering at your neighborhood school? My understanding is that the Washington DC schools need all the help they can get, so I would assume a young energetic socially-aware dude such as yourself would step up. Do you volunteer at an elementary, middle, or high school? What type of work do you help the teachers with?

Just curious.

Cranky

[1] Not a good assumption among my high school classmates, but probably safe given Matt's SES.

There is nothing secret, (there never has been), about the attempt to privatize everything they damn well can, you poor man. Don't you have to be sharp, smart, perceptive to graduate from Harvard? Honestly, you sound like a complete dunderhead, like when you supported the war, remember that? Or that post about the Mister T. Experience. You apparently know less about politics than punk music.

I apologize.

That was completely uncalled for. An unecessary slight to the many fine and brilliant people who do not attend or graduate from Harvard. Obviously complete dunderheads attend and graduate from Harvard all the time.

looks to me like a false dichotomy - NCLB overall is a compromise between Ted Kennedy and Bush. Ted put in a lot of parts that are anathema to conservatives and privatizers, but they had some influence in inserting some language that they thought could be useful toward their agenda.

You don't have to wonder. Look back at the initial debate about NCLB, and who supported it-- scores of school voucher supporters (like Jeb Bush.) What possible sense does it make to partially defund schools that have the most need? How does that help them improve? Well, it makes perfect sense, if what you really want to accomplish is to damage public schools until people have no choice but to support vouchers.

It's a double reverse blind feint to throw us off the trail of the truth. They are all conspiring. Off with their heads!

Quick question: assuming you have no school-age children of your own[, how many hours/week do you spend volunteering at your neighborhood school? My understanding is that the Washington DC schools need all the help they can get, so I would assume a young energetic socially-aware dude such as yourself would step up. Do you volunteer at an elementary, middle, or high school? What type of work do you help the teachers with?

I spend zero hours per week doing volunteer work of any kind. Thus, I'm unqualified to offer arguments and opinions on public policy questions, right? Makes sense to me.

I am so tired of using the "conspiracy" label, and accusations of "paranoia" as substitutes for political arguments in matters of controversy.

The U.S. was founded by Whigs (see Gordon Wood), and all successful political programs -- and many ultimately failed programs -- have been Whiggish plans for gradual, often subversive reform.

Both the American Right and American Left have been avid practioners of Whiggish subversive reform, though the Right has been better at it, lo these last 40 years or so.

Lots of program features are adopted, specifically because of their subversive potential.

That politicians compromise, adopting features with a subversive potential, gambling that their opponents' hopes will not be realized is a fact of life.

NCLB is badly designed. Why is it badly designed?

The obvious alternative to the paranoid explanation is that American politicians are all feckless incompetents. Hardly a comforting thought.

I said this in the last thread, but Matt, it seems you don't know how the Trojan horse plan really works. You can't have a bunch of sword-waving Greek soldiers encouraging the Trojans to take the horse in, because that way, they will be suspicious. No, the libertarian think tanks are waiting quietly inside the horse; they will come pouring out waving their policy whitepapers only when the horse is safely within the gates and American schools are deemed to have failed.

Don't they teach classics at Harvard?

Importantly, there's a substantially large constituency that doesn't want to gut the public school system ... namely, those upper-middle class and middle class parents who do send their kids to public school. I mean, the parents whose kids go to TJHSST, Montgomery Blair, or Bronx Science are unlikely to want to drain money from the public school system as a whole.

There is nothing paranoid about believing that numerous people within the Bush administration and its supporters are in favor of increasing the role of private schools in providing primary education, or that the proponents of NCLB hoped that it would expose chronically poor performers among public schools and thereby help attain their policy goal. In fact, it's probably a correct belief.

To believe, however, as noted by Matt's original post, that the drafters of NCLB inserted a Trojan horse into the legislation in the form of an obscure provision that could easily be fixed later on (by changing 100% to some lesser number) is paranoid, nutty, batty and loony.

> There is nothing paranoid about believing that
> numerous people within the Bush administration
> and its supporters are in favor of increasing
> the role of private schools in providing
> primary education,

One more time, then I'm done: there is no need to "believe" this in the sense of believing a conspiracy theory, since it is an _openly stated goal of the Radical Right_ to destroy public education. They say it all the time in so many words. No belief necessary.

And as I said in the other thread, it is no doubt a great triumph of art for the con man to con his victim into chumping _himself_. For the last 20 years the Radicals have had far, far better legislation writers than the Democrats (liberals not really being represented at the table). Given the Radicals' _openly stated goal_ of destroying public education and their clear superority in legislation-wrting, it is a simple Logic 101 - Chapter 1 exercise to conclude that the Radicals chumped Kennedy and many others. I am sure Norquist chuckles to himself every time he thinks about it down to this day (in fact the moreso today because the effects are really being felt now, at least in my county).

Cranky

paranoid, nutty, batty and loony.

At least we aren't engaging in hyperbole, around here.

I should say that I think one could fairly say that there seems to me to be a certian objectionable arrogance in the way important aspects of a major education reform seem to rely on wink-nod understandings among insiders.

Because, you know, the general tenor of faux-intellectual condescension you use in this blog could never be accused of being arrogant.

Jesus Christ! Read the 1983 Cato publication by Butler and Germanis yourselves. "Achieveing A Leninist Strategy" (To Privatize and Destroy Social Security). And what and who exactly are the "leftists" here. Obviously they are not economically left. Their politics and methods are another matter, and debatable.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj3n2/cj3n2-11.pdf

Failure to recognize the obvious is "paranoid, nutty, batty and loony". You who have eyes but will not see are the very sheeple they rely on.

To believe, however, as noted by Matt's original post, that the drafters of NCLB inserted a Trojan horse into the legislation in the form of an obscure provision that could easily be fixed later on (by changing 100% to some lesser number) is paranoid, nutty, batty and loony.

That's an oversimplified version of the plan. Really, what it is is that the benchmarks, the way they evolve over the years, and the 'zero tolerance' approach to the 'needs improvement' labelling (your school 'needs improvement' if it fails any benchmark in any year, and it's not easy at all to shed that label) inevitably create a system where the number of failing schools will monotonically increase over the next 7 years regardless of the facts on the ground.

I hope the poster at Drum's place doesn't mind my copying in this cogent comment:

}}Where has everyone been? That was pretty obviously the thrust of this law from day one - that the entire public school system would be privatized, because the public schools have no chance in hell of meeting the mandate unless they figure out a way to put their underachievers on catapults and fire them into Canada or something. I work for an educational publisher and when we were first briefed on this law, that was the point of the general discussion that followed; that this was the biggest Trojan Horse in history and our company - shame - had been instrumental in pushing it.
Posted by: Susan Paxton on March 14, 2007 at 3:45 PM {{

Most of you will be having a "Jay Carney" moment at some point.

Sooner rather that later, hopefully and he's only a lapdog journalist. If I'm ever O.J., I want some of you holdouts on my jury.

Where Credit Is Due

Twelve days ago, after David Iglesias went public, I said that if there turned out to be a broad conspiracy behind the firing of the U.S. Attorneys, "I will take my hat off to Marshall and others in the blogosphere and congratulate them for having been right in their suspicions about this story from the beginning."

My hat is off. Josh Marshall at TalkingPointsMemo and everyone else out there whose instincts told them there was something deeply wrong and even sinister about the firings, and who dug around and kept writing about them while Iglesias decided whether to talk to the press or go quietly on to his next job, deserve tremendous credit.

When this story first surfaced, I thought the Bush White House and Justice Department were guilty of poorly executed acts of crass political patronage. I called some Democrats on the Hill; they were "concerned", but this was not a priority. The blogosphere was the engine on this story, pulling the Hill and the MSM along. As the document dump proves, what happened was much worse than I'd first thought. I was wrong. Very nice work, and thanks for holding my feet to the fire.

http://time-blog.com/swampland/2007/03/where_credit_is_due.html

In modern America, all public rhetoric about education (and therefore most education policy) is based on magic pony thinking about every child being at least average in intelligence. In reality, we all know deep down that intelligence is distributed along a B*ll C*rv*e, but that would require us mentioning the Forbidden Words. So, we lie to each other constantly, and make up stupid policies like NCLB.

A report prepared for the Campaign for Educational Equity by Richard Rothstein, Rebecca Jacobsen, and Tamara Wilder sums up the absurdity of NCLB in its title: "'Proficiency for All' – An Oxymoron." They point out:

"In its administration of NCLB, the U.S. Department of Education barely acknowledges this human variability. … Under NCLB, children with I.Q.s as low as 65 must achieve a standard of proficiency in math which is higher than that achieved by 60 percent of students in Taiwan, the highest scoring country in the world (in math), and a standard of proficiency in reading which is higher than that achieved by 65 percent of students in Sweden, the highest scoring country in the world (in reading)."

For more on "Why NCLB Is Nuts," see:

http://www.vdare.com/sailer/070218_child.htm

I think people are missing the ultimately more pernicious Trojan Horse aspect of NCLB. Labeling schools "failures" is really only a small part. The long-term fight is going to be over the allocation diminishing resources. It's a divide and conquer strategy that the conservatives expect to drive a wedge between the middle class and public schools. As I stated at Kevin's site:

I buy into the Trojan Horse theory but Kevin and most commenters are missing another way NCLB is designed to drive a wedge between the middle class and the public schools: a narrow focus on minimal proficiency in math, reading and, soon, science. The result is that cash-strapped schools redirect limited resources from non-NCLB subjects [e.g., history, art, music] and higher achieving and already proficient kids to struggling students in the NCLB-tested subjects. This then causes a revolt among the parents of middle class kids who form a loud and well-organized constituency for these non-core subjects and higher achieving kids. I have seen this play out in our diverse suburban district: everyone fighting for as big a piece of a shrinking pie as possible. And, remember, these same districts are also getting nailed by federally mandated special ed costs. Eventually, the middle class parents, who don't want just phonics and math drills for their kids, are going to bolt for private schools. I have no doubt that is the conversatives' plan.

Kevin Carey says that failing schools can lose money under NCLB, but it's ok 'cause that the money goes to the students for either a) after school tutoring or b) a voucher to a better school.

Are the students going to stick around and savor the after school detention tutoring, or take the voucher?

Kill public schools and their egalitarian ways. Kill unions.

Matt's right. Believe it or not, there are multiple factions in the right-of-center political coalition. One faction (the one that the president heads) is enamored with federal power, and believes the solution to society's ills is to concentrate more power in the federal government (and especially the executive branch) and then use all that power for "conservative" purposes like locking up suspected terrorists, giving money to religious organizations, and making kids take more tests.

Another faction is the libertarian/small government faction, which doesn't have an especially prominent leader at the moment. But they believe in federalism, local control, vouchers, tax credits, etc. They hate NCLB because it increases the power and influence of the federal government. (I'm in the latter category)

NCLB is not a stalking horse for school choice. Frankly, school choice doesn't need a stalking horse. We're doing just fine getting school choice enacted on its merits. We've passed choice proposals in several states and are getting close to succeeding in several others.

NCLB may be moderately useful in demonstrating what a lousy job public schools are doing of educating kids, but frankly, I think that's already obvious to anyone who's paying attention.

LWM,

Your example from Cato on social security privatization shows how a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Cato routinely slams NCLB; search their site and you'll find such approving terms for it as "No Bureaucrat Left Behind." NCLB is more analogous to the prescription drug benefit in that it is a half-baked effort to "do something" about an issue motivated more by political expediency than anything else. As Matt Y. and Kevin Carey point out, actual voucher advocates hate it; the ones who say nice things about it are predominatly loyal to the Republican party (and consequently not attacking a major part of a GOP prez's agenda) first.

I almost posted this in a previous thread, but didn't think it worth the effort. Now that I see multiple, updated posts both here and at Washington Monthly, though...

First of all, I agree with what ChristianPinko said in your previous thread. Liberals who supported NCLB when it was new believed it was only intended to be temporary, and actual liberals who support it now are pretty damn rare.

But the problem with your argument — that the 100 percent goal won't result in defunding all schools, it will just result in standards low enough for 100 percent to meet — is that it proves too much, to borrow a phrase. As others have also said, 100 percent is impossible with any meaningful standards. There will also be sp-ed kids (unless the real goal is to get them out of the system). And a few kids will figure out that this week's standardized test is actually a test of their teachers and administration, who they're happy to screw over (full disclosure: both my parents work in schools.) Hell, some kids will get mono during testing week or will have moved three times in a bad year or something. Five percent of students will fail any test more difficult than spelling their own name correctly.

So if Kennedy or the other liberals who supported NCLB are dumb enough to support it even though it would ultimately get rid of all standards, as you seem to be saying, they're certainly dumb enough to support a stalking horse for a voucher program.

Cyrus: Five percent of students will fail any test more difficult than spelling their own name correctly.

But that doesn't mean that we should hold their schools accountable!

Sorry Neil, but Matt's right. I and my Cato colleagues think the NCLB is not only ineffective but harmful, inimical to the policies that would actually achieve its goals, and unconstitutional.

I suppose it's possible that some of the NCLB's backers were pursuing a Trojan Horse gambit, but the more prosaic explanations are certainly sufficient to explain the law: politics coupled with ignorance of what actually works. For the truly gory details of its drafting and passage, check out the audio and video feeds from our NCLB forum last week: http://www.cato.org/event.php?eventid=3527

Just to be clear on this:

Kevin Carey says that failing schools can lose money under NCLB, but it's ok 'cause that the money goes to the students for either a) after school tutoring or b) a voucher to a better school.

Are the students going to stick around and savor the after school detention tutoring, or take the voucher?

Kill public schools and their egalitarian ways. Kill unions.

It's a "voucher, if you want to call it that, to another public school within the same school district.

And the tutoring is completely voluntary, it's up to the student's parent if they want to sign their kids up. The parents also get to pick the provider from an approved list.

Both provisions have their faults--a lot of districts don't have any other good schools that students can transfer to, for example.

But the idea that NCLB financially penalizes schools in a way that's bad for students is flatly incorrect. That's just not what the law does.

MattXIV,

You are an example of how too much focus (or too much specialized knowledge) can blind one to the big picture, like one of three blind men trying to identify an elephant by feeling various parts. Who gives a rat's ass what the loons at Cato, (or a racist like Steve Sailer) thinks about NCLB. Those of us with open eyes can step back and see the elephant in the room, even if you can't.

NCLB may be moderately useful in demonstrating what a lousy job public schools are doing of educating kids, but frankly, I think that's already obvious to anyone who's paying attention.

Posted by: Tim

What an incredibly idiotic assertion. I'll just bet you have some connection to the Cato institute. Education is something that happens between a student and a teacher. How it gets paid for, and by whom, is irrelevant to the process. You would have to be an ignorant ideologue from Cato to not know that. I went to one of the finest private schools in Manhattan. I doubt you would have had the "opportunity" or "choice" to attend. Public education in this country can always be improved and is by no means perfect and I have nothing against more choice and a better education for everyone, but if you think your proposals are going to provide that, you are just fooling yourself. I get the impression you've honed that skill for some time.

LWM,

Well, since the "loons" at free-market think tanks like Cato (who are relevant when you link to them, but not when anybody else does apparently), are the ones pushing vouchers, I think their positions on NCLB are relevant to whether or not it is an attempt to sneak vouchers in. Make no mistake, I'm pro-voucher and oppose NCLB because its decreases local discretion at a time where enabling it is important to allow pilot scale voucher programs to demonstrate that they work and creating more educational bureaucracy equals more public sector education jobs that are going to be next to impossible to eliminate.

I don't know what Steve Sailer has to do with my comment other than that he doesn't like NCLB either (and based on his statements on the tread for different reasons than I do).

Public education in this country can always be improved and is by no means perfect and I have nothing against more choice and a better education for everyone, but if you think your proposals are going to provide that, you are just fooling yourself.

Well gosh, you told me. I'd better shut up now before I further make a fool of myself.

What, another idiotic comment from Tim? There are public schools in NYC that wouldn't take you because you aren't bright enough. I'm serious, like The Bronx High School of Science.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronx_High_School_of_Science

Not to worry, Tim. You can always get a job at a right wing think tank with Penn Gillette. You can be Teller and keep your mouth shut.

MattXIV,

The Cato Institute is a joke, as are most of you vulgar libertarians. If you think it's funny -- fine. The joke is on you.

Vouchers are a great idea for housing. Public housing is one area that can stand improvement. Odd that vouchers for housing are disappearing while they are being pushed for education.

Look, I have no patience for either of you. If I were Nixon, (Milton Friedman did call him the most "socialist" of American presidents and I'm sure you've both heard of Milton), I'd pass on the Brookings and start with the As, like AEI, skip the Bs and go right into the Cs, like Cato. (Nixon wanted to firebomb Brookings). I draw the line at even listening to most of you vulgarians, with the exception of David (Milton's kid) Friedman, whom I disagree with about almost everything, not all, but this:

"There may be two libertarians somewhere who agree with each other about everything, but I am not one of them."

-DF

...and neither of you are David Friedman. It's been my experience that most of you are not too bright. If I am wrong about Matt, eh. So what? If you want to debate, try Kevin Carson. He'll eat you both for lunch.

http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2006/09/vulgar-libertarianism-neoliberalism.html

When you get into trouble, go ask David.

http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/

It is interesting that the American Left opposes vouchers and with such a bisarre retorich as well, "destroying public education". A voucher system would decrease the number of students in the public school system but the competition would probaly increase the quality of education for those who are left.

The voucher system I am familiar has worked well and certainly hasn't destroyed public schools.

LWM,

Do you actually have anything to offer on the topic of NCLB and vouchers other than arrogance and incoherence?

thanks

have you flowers

Good comment.Thanks admin.

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